2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

This forum contains threads to discuss teams themselves. Anything not technical about the cars, including restructuring, performances etc belongs here.
Post Reply
Jolle
132
Joined: 29 Jan 2014, 22:58
Location: Dordrecht

Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

Post

There is another principle that could come into play: you can’t be punished twice for the same offence (in law in general). Hamilton already had his punishment.

the EDGE
67
Joined: 13 Feb 2012, 18:31
Location: Bedfordshire ENGLAND

Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

Post

LaplacesDemon wrote:
28 Jul 2021, 18:08
I don't see on what grounds they can push for a harsher penalty. FIA have declared Hamilton predominantly at fault and punished him accordingly. Realistically there is no way they can spin it to make him wholly at fault.
Really… I heard they have spy pics which clearly show Lewis’ wheels were fitted with Roman chariot style spikes on the hubs :wink:

User avatar
ringo
225
Joined: 29 Mar 2009, 10:57

Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

Post

We are now hearing that the engine is fine and redbull wont have any parts penalties.
Goes to show how overblown all of this is.
Their damage doesnt cost 1.8 million anymore.
Redbull is a nasty little team.

Marko is claiming he has video evidence and Hamilton should get a race ban or drive through penalty in the next race.
But is that what fans want to see?
For Sure!!

User avatar
Shrieker
13
Joined: 01 Mar 2010, 23:41

Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

Post

Marko has to be the most obnoxious person in the paddock; ever. And I've seen plenty.
Education is that which allows a nation free, independent, reputable life, and function as a high society; or it condemns it to captivity and poverty.
-Atatürk

User avatar
dans79
267
Joined: 03 Mar 2013, 19:33
Location: USA

Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

Post

ringo wrote:
28 Jul 2021, 20:19
Marko is claiming he has video evidence and Hamilton should get a race ban or drive through penalty in the next race.
But is that what fans want to see?
lol, I'd love to see what he supposedly has that the stewards didn't already have access to.
197 104 103 7

taperoo2k
14
Joined: 02 Mar 2012, 17:33

Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

Post

This looks more like mind games from RedBull than a serious attempt at getting Lewis banned for a race. Unsettle Lewis and the team ahead of the next race seems to be the idea here, though they could have new evidence the stewards missed (but I doubt it).

f1jcw
17
Joined: 21 Feb 2019, 21:15

Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

Post

It’s not going to happen.
1. They’d have to prove he deliberately tried to take Max out.
2. They’d be destroying the championship, which they are loath to do

the EDGE
67
Joined: 13 Feb 2012, 18:31
Location: Bedfordshire ENGLAND

Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

Post

f1jcw wrote:
28 Jul 2021, 21:42
It’s not going to happen.
1. They’d have to prove he deliberately tried to take Max out.
Obviously he didn’t try to take Max out, but suppose they say he’s 100% guilty and accidentally to put Max

What would be the normal penalty for that?

I can’t remember the last time anyone go more than 5s for something similar

f1jcw
17
Joined: 21 Feb 2019, 21:15

Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

Post

the EDGE wrote:
28 Jul 2021, 21:46
f1jcw wrote:
28 Jul 2021, 21:42
It’s not going to happen.
1. They’d have to prove he deliberately tried to take Max out.
Obviously he didn’t try to take Max out, but suppose they say he’s 100% guilty and accidentally to put Max
They don’t give racing bans for it.

zibby43
613
Joined: 04 Mar 2017, 12:16

Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

Post

ringo wrote:
28 Jul 2021, 20:19
We are now hearing that the engine is fine and redbull wont have any parts penalties.
Goes to show how overblown all of this is.
Their damage doesnt cost 1.8 million anymore.
Redbull is a nasty little team.

Marko is claiming he has video evidence and Hamilton should get a race ban or drive through penalty in the next race.
But is that what fans want to see?
Sounds like no evidence they have is new. Marko doesn’t sound confident in his chances (and he shouldn’t). He’s publicly admitting that they’re just doing this to put on a public spectacle of support for Max.

Abusing the right of review in bad faith should have consequences. Then we’ll stop seeing crap like this.


User avatar
Big Tea
99
Joined: 24 Dec 2017, 20:57

Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

Post

ringo wrote:
28 Jul 2021, 20:19
We are now hearing that the engine is fine and redbull wont have any parts penalties.
Goes to show how overblown all of this is.
Their damage doesnt cost 1.8 million anymore.
Redbull is a nasty little team.

Marko is claiming he has video evidence and Hamilton should get a race ban or drive through penalty in the next race.
But is that what fans want to see?
Yeh, but it could still have been 500g, but they were lucky
When arguing with a fool, be sure the other person is not doing the same thing.

User avatar
NathanOlder
48
Joined: 02 Mar 2012, 10:05
Location: Kent

Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

Post

what happens if a team over spends? Say a team has spent every last penny and with 1 race to go, need a new chassis due to a crash or a new PU. Whats the penalty?
GoLandoGo
Lewis v2.0
King George has arrived.

New found love for GT racing with Assetto Corsa Competizione on PS5 & PC

zibby43
613
Joined: 04 Mar 2017, 12:16

Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

Post

NathanOlder wrote:
29 Jul 2021, 00:18
what happens if a team over spends? Say a team has spent every last penny and with 1 race to go, need a new chassis due to a crash or a new PU. Whats the penalty?
Good question:

“From 2021 breaches of the cost cap, or late submittal of accounts, can be punished in a number of ways. For minor indiscretions financial penalties and reprimands will be used.”

Other punishments include: deduction of constructor or driver points, limitations on testing, race bans and a reduction of a team’s cost cap going forward.

The most serious penalty is total exclusion from the championship.

jurinius
0
Joined: 14 Mar 2014, 04:17

Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

Post

Crystal clear of what the commission is going to see :

1 - RB will say Hamilton started the overtake then hit the brakes. // Mercedes answer : Does it mean u are not allowed to engage an overtaking ?
2 - RB will say we have all the measure of the impact and play sensational aspect // Mercedes answer : What about the onboard camera view ? Is that a clean racing move by Max at this corner ?
3 - RB : So why did u give him just 10s penalty if not guilty // Mercedes : Is that a commission to judge the stewards or to review new elements / facts of the incident ?

Just hope we will not add new metrics for penalties like "high adrenaline rate because it is a home race" - "Supicious angriness after being 2nd at qualification sprint" - "Not disapearing at the corner when there is a risk of 51G shock"
“And suddenly I realized that I was no longer driving the car consciously. I was driving it by a kind of instinct, only I was in a different dimension.”
― Ayrton Senna

Hammerfist
0
Joined: 06 Apr 2017, 04:18

Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

Post

Just_a_fan wrote:
27 Jul 2021, 15:10
aMessageToCharlie wrote:
27 Jul 2021, 14:40
NathanOlder wrote:
27 Jul 2021, 13:31
You say every team would do it, well they are not currently doing it, so the reason then I ask is, why are RedBull doing it ? Spening more money on 1 car maybe ?

I think Mercedes bring their updates in pairs, so both drivers have it. I guess if a team really wanted to back 1 driver they would only produce 1 of every upgrade, then spend a little more on the development and make the 1 car faster, when the car gets upgrades to upgraded parts, they then drop on to the number 2 car.

Mercedes certainly havent done this.
If it gave the team any kind of edge, I would fully expect a team like Mercedes to jump on it and take the gains. They are working to extract any kind of performance gains they can get, so if it was beneficial to follow that approach, they'd do it.

IMO Mercedes' approach would be the preferred one as you want both of your cars to be as competitive as possible.

So I would think that RBR's approach this year might more likely be down to them not being able to produce the needed quantity of parts, rather than a strategic move. Especially in a year with relatively few updates planned, the "upgrades to upgraded parts" approach seems unpractical.
Mercedes do it their way because it's team result first, driver result second. Red Bull appears to take the opposite approach and put driver result first, hence why they have no compunction with favouring one driver with upgrades before the other driver.

Given one or other title, I get the feeling that Red Bull would be happy to win the driver title and lose the constructor title, Mercedes would be happy the other way.
That's the way I read it as well. I just don't envision Redbull ordering Max to let Checo past in Austria like Mercedes ordered hamilton to do in Austria because of his damaged car. They would rather the Mclaren beat both Redbulls instead of the championship leader losing points to his teammate.

Redbull has the capacity to bring pairs of updates at every race. Matthew Carter on the Missed Apex podcast has said on more than one occasion that Redbull brings many parts to a weekend, tries them on the car and if the parts do not work they dump them like they are cheap second hand furniture. They choose to put upgrades on Max's car first because he is being heavily favored by the team in a way that no other team on the current grid is doing. This is partly why Ricciardo left, and why every driver that has filled that second seat afterwards has always underperformed. I don't understand why some struggle to see this. It is clear as day.

Post Reply