2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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Phil
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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I'm extremely disappointed with the outcome of Monza. IMO - the team massively underperformed.

Some points:

1.)
lack of coordination and control over the tow situation during qualifying. Seemed they were just a bit too cocky with their supposed pace advantage vs. RedBull.

2.)
Wrong tire for the sprint. Starting on softs and not being vulnerable to the quick starters seemed like a no-brainer, especially for Hamilton starting on the dirty side. With only 18 laps to cover, it also seemed rather logical that the tire could last the duration on lighter cars.

3.)
Starting on the hard tire for the race was bang on and a brilliant choice.

4.)
Biggest strategic blunder; Why did they bring in Hamilton so early? Yes, I get that the situation fell into their lap with Verstappen having an extremely slow stop, but at the point they brought Lewis in, it seemed they had more time to spare with both Norris and Verstappen being held up by, I think, Stroll. Also, with Verstappen behind Norris in a potentially slower car, one would have thought that Hamilton could still not lose too much time on his alternative strategy...

I just didn't get the point of stopping that early. Not going to start on that slow stop - I mean, Mercedes isn't known to be extremely good at pitstops, but on the one day it was as important as ever, they stuff it up... #-o
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SiLo
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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Ultimately the slow stop cost them at least P2. But I agree, they could have held out quite a bit longer to really have a big offset. I think Hamilton would have been able to overtake.
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NathanOlder
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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If they pit later, they definitely come out behind Norris and Max. Lewis in lap first sector was a 28.6. Norris first sector on the lap Lewis came out was a 28.0. So if they waited to stop him a lap or 2 later, Norris and probably Max would have undercut him. I think pitting that lap was exactly the thing to do, they would have had a go at Ricciardo while the tyres were good, and if unable to pass, settle for P2 and Max likely P4.
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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NathanOlder wrote:
Mon Sep 13, 2021 10:36 am
If they pit later, they definitely come out behind Norris and Max. Lewis in lap first sector was a 28.6. Norris first sector on the lap Lewis came out was a 28.0. So if they waited to stop him a lap or 2 later, Norris and probably Max would have undercut him. I think pitting that lap was exactly the thing to do, they would have had a go at Ricciardo while the tyres were good, and if unable to pass, settle for P2 and Max likely P4.
I dont have information about the traffic, but pitting right after overtaking of Norris seemed the most logical choice. “Undercut” of Norris and covering Max was ideal. Everybody knows that it was the last pit stop so the timing was crucial. Waiting for explanaiton from Mercedes.

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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ringo wrote:
Sun Sep 12, 2021 8:29 pm
Looks like they edited the wheel pressing his head into the dashboard.
They should not censor this. Especially against the backdrop from Redbull and their driver's comments.
Not even an apology from redbull for what could have been a fatal accident. Not a precautionary check by the FIA of LH. Tough being Lewis I guess. :-|

Merdeces need to give Lewis an upgrade. It makes no sense having the cars close in terms of speed. The other team just wont fight cleanly and their driver doesn't seem to learn from these accidents.
It's not censored. You have to click on image to expand it.
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PlatinumZealot
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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NathanOlder wrote:
Mon Sep 13, 2021 10:36 am
If they pit later, they definitely come out behind Norris and Max. Lewis in lap first sector was a 28.6. Norris first sector on the lap Lewis came out was a 28.0. So if they waited to stop him a lap or 2 later, Norris and probably Max would have undercut him. I think pitting that lap was exactly the thing to do, they would have had a go at Ricciardo while the tyres were good, and if unable to pass, settle for P2 and Max likely P4.
Agreed for the same reasons and I think the timing was OK as Hamliton's hards already lost their edge. He would have only fell behind Norris and Max at that point. I am noticing Mercedes seems to under perform in pitstops when they are under pressure. We are only save by the new "manual operation" rules in play now that affect RedBull the most, so there is some solace that at least we can gain some ground in pitstops, but the team really needs to be on their A game to make this so.
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El Scorchio
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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Simply, they saw an opportunity to jump Verstappen in the pits rather than have to do it on the road due the the slow stop from RBR and reacted to it immediately. It was the correct decision, only thwarted by their own messy pit stop. Had the stop been clean like 99% of them are, then Hamilton is comfortably two seconds up the road from Norris and Verstappen. You cannot legislate for a poor pit stop. In that situation it was the right call to make and you'd do it every time.

Unfortunately, the slow stop brought him out between Norris and Verstappen but nevertheless in front of Verstappen, who clearly made the decision going into the the chicane that one way or another he was coming out ahead, or neither of them was coming out at all. Hamilton for once didn't jump out of the way and nor should he have had to in that situation, if it was even possible for him to. Verstappen decided they were going to crash rather than he take the appropriate action to avoid one, which he easily could have done and why he was penalised. It's obvious from the angle he took the second part of the chicane at. There's no way he'd have done that to any driver other than Hamilton because he knew he was going to end one or both of their races at that corner. As I said yesterday, Schumacher-esque. The 'that's what you get' comment only served to communicate his intent.

The penalty needed to be given. I'm not convinced it was given only for that incident in isolation, but more for cumulative behaviour toward Hamilton over the course of the season and as a warning that it won't be tolerated and will lead to harsher punishments if he does it again. Quite simply they won't allow him to just barge Hamilton off the road every time he gets close to him or tries to overtake/defend a position in order to preserve his slender championship lead. I think there will be a lot more scrutiny on how he behaves in the remainder of the season

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ringo
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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Well said!
Yes he has no interest in racing Hamilton. It's to be champion at all costs.
The last driver i saw like this was Nico. And Nico was not as bad as he was in the same team like Senna and Prost.
It's the first i have observed this across teams.

Phil made some good points on the team's choices.

Lewis also made a wrong choice with the turn 4 attempt.
He should have followed Max through and overtake later on the lap.
Even though we do not know what Max will do if Lewis tried to overtake later.

The team really needs to sharpen up and so does Lewis. He doesnt seem as hungry and clinical as he used to be. He is driving well and it's evident he has an edge over his rival in his abilities, but the chances arent coming often and when they come he or the team make a wrong choice. I wouldnt say error but they make wrong choices.
For Sure!!

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atanatizante
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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1. Is HAM allowed to have a new PU at the next races due to the crash with VER in the race?
2. Anyone read about the only one oil & lube upgrade for 2021 which was supposedly coming with the 3rd PU introduction?
"I don`t have all the answers. Try Google!"
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NathanOlder
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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atanatizante wrote:
Mon Sep 13, 2021 2:48 pm
1. Is HAM allowed to have a new PU at the next races due to the crash with VER in the race?
2. Anyone read about the only one oil & lube upgrade for 2021 which was supposedly coming with the 3rd PU introduction?
1, Isn't it just a new gearbox you are allowed to take after a DNF ?
2, No sign or word of the upgrade to the lubricants, I'd love to know also.

adding to that

3, Bottas had a fresh PU at Monza and seemed to be faster with it than I expected, with a 4th PU, does it have to be the same spec as Spec 3 ?
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PlatinumZealot
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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Chassis destroyed?

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Marty_Y
Marty_Y
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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Good questions above,

What is the likelihood that Hamilton's engine was damaged in the collision yesterday, it looked like the weight of the Red Bull was on the top of the Mercedes before it got to the roll hoop / halo.

Jolle
Jolle
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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Marty_Y wrote:
Mon Sep 13, 2021 4:14 pm
Good questions above,

What is the likelihood that Hamilton's engine was damaged in the collision yesterday, it looked like the weight of the Red Bull was on the top of the Mercedes before it got to the roll hoop / halo.
the engine is nicely tucked away behind the chassis. The impact itself was not that hard, doesn't look like there is any real damage apart from bodywork.

dans79
dans79
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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You can only take a new Gearbox because of a DNF.

If you take a 4th PU you will get penalties no matter what, and it must be the same spec as all previous ones.

The PU should be fine from the accident, more likely he might need a new chassis!
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dxpetrov
dxpetrov
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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Jolle wrote:
Mon Sep 13, 2021 4:39 pm
Marty_Y wrote:
Mon Sep 13, 2021 4:14 pm
Good questions above,

What is the likelihood that Hamilton's engine was damaged in the collision yesterday, it looked like the weight of the Red Bull was on the top of the Mercedes before it got to the roll hoop / halo.
the engine is nicely tucked away behind the chassis. The impact itself was not that hard, doesn't look like there is any real damage apart from bodywork.
Not sure about that. His engineer said his engine was cooked and could not continue.