2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

This forum contains threads to discuss teams themselves. Anything not technical about the cars, including restructuring, performances etc belongs here.
Marty_Y
Marty_Y
35
Joined: Wed Mar 31, 2021 10:37 pm

Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

Post


User avatar
NathanOlder
166
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2012 9:05 am
Location: Kent

Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

Post

Gillian wrote:
Wed Sep 15, 2021 4:34 pm
El Scorchio wrote:
Wed Sep 15, 2021 11:18 am
Shrieker wrote:
Wed Sep 15, 2021 11:13 am


I don't think that's gonna happen. This may very well be his last chance to win an F1 race. And look at what happened at Zandvoort.
In which case, I'd imagine they'll just start holding him in the pits to clear Hamilton past him if they absolutely have to. Would be a sad state of affairs if it came to that, and I can't see it. I'm sure they'll give him a win if they get the opportunity.
This already happened in Zandvoort. They pitted him so he would not be in the way of Hamilton. They even told him that's why (check clip below). Not literally what you are saying but still the same effect because he did not need to stop yet at that moment nor did he got the chance to drive as fast as he could (as in the team did not want him to and he obliged).

I don't blame them perse. He took his time on occasion to let Hamilton passed so they are not taking a risk anymore. Bottas won't be winning the WDC against Verstappen so backing Hamilton who can is the right choice.

This is wrong also, he was 28 seconds behind Hamilton, and it was a 24 seconds loss time in the pits. So even if they left Bottas out, Lewis still had plenty of room for a free stop.
GoLandoGo
Lewis v2.0
King George has arrived.

New found love for GT racing with Assetto Corsa Competizione on PS5 & PC

Gillian
Gillian
18
Joined: Thu May 27, 2021 8:46 pm

Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

Post

I'm sorry but that's it literally what his engineer tells him over the radio. They stopped him and ask him to go slow so that Hamilton has a free stop at the end. Just listen to the radio.

User avatar
ringo
240
Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2009 9:57 am

Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

Post

Gillian wrote:
Wed Sep 15, 2021 6:29 pm
And I personally see a lot of similarities between Hamiltons early days and Verstappens. But that's my personal opinion.

Don't forget how young Verstappen is btw. Pretty similar to when Hamilton just came in to F1
I think we are dealing with two different drivers in terms of temperament and entitlement.

At 23 both were super confident. LH more quiet and in the mclaren camp more careful with his words.
MV more entitled and was told to believe his the best, and that he is never wrong. I think there are too many mentors in Max's life, and all of them are not the best type to have and they have defined who he is and how he reacts and responds on and off the track.
I don't recall LH cursing in the car, or to any one, or fighting anyone, bullying, and all of that type of spoiled brat behavior. His team bosses also encouraged profesionalism at all times. Lewis was forced to be more mature earlier, as Mclaren under Ron was a more professional team than Redbull. LH being 23 year old young man has been molded differently and was somewhat more self defining.
Max at 17 just would absorb and learn most of his behavior from the Redbull tribe which is unfortunate. His comments after crashing into Hamilton pretty much sums up how his mind works and how he was groomed to behave.

As for driving yes there are similarities at the beginning of LH career with where Max is now. The both push the limits.
They do it differently. The race craft is also different. LH was mostly defensive and unobtrusive when he does overtake. Max is more direct with overtaking and less tidy. There are more differences than similarities.

Max is actually more like Senna than any other driver since Senna.

Hamilton is more like Shumacher in terms of craft and finer details.

The sticking point with Max is that 7 years of experience in F-1 should factor more than his age of 23. 7 Years is senior driver's career. Drivers can be looking to leave the sport after driving for 7 years.
For Sure!!

User avatar
Shrieker
73
Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2010 10:41 pm

Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

Post

dans79 wrote:
Wed Sep 15, 2021 5:46 pm
Someone should ask him about the show he put on post silverstone.
A slam dunk case of projection I think...
Education is that which allows a nation free, independent, reputable life, and function as a high society; or it condemns it to captivity and poverty.
-Atatürk

Marty_Y
Marty_Y
35
Joined: Wed Mar 31, 2021 10:37 pm

Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

Post

From the race debrief,

"looking at the learnings from those 3 races, list of problems that we need to get stuck into, areas we can improve, possibilities for development."

It's interesting that he mentions "possibilities for development" because I remember James Allison saying (in the Silverstone debrief video) that there would be no more big updates, but they would look at what improvements (or tweaks as he put it) could be made where it was efficient to do so, as long as it doesn't take the focus away from next year's car.

So I wonder what they can actually do, considering the time it takes to go through the various processes of designing and getting the upgrades on to the car?

User avatar
NathanOlder
166
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2012 9:05 am
Location: Kent

Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

Post

Gillian wrote:
Wed Sep 15, 2021 7:50 pm
I'm sorry but that's it literally what his engineer tells him over the radio. They stopped him and ask him to go slow so that Hamilton has a free stop at the end. Just listen to the radio.
You said they pitted him , so Lewis had a free stop. I was pointing out that wasn't the case as they already had well over a pit stop gap behind Lewis.
GoLandoGo
Lewis v2.0
King George has arrived.

New found love for GT racing with Assetto Corsa Competizione on PS5 & PC

User avatar
Big Tea
165
Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2017 7:57 pm

Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

Post

Marty_Y wrote:
Wed Sep 15, 2021 9:29 pm
From the race debrief,

"looking at the learnings from those 3 races, list of problems that we need to get stuck into, areas we can improve, possibilities for development."

It's interesting that he mentions "possibilities for development" because I remember James Allison saying (in the Silverstone debrief video) that there would be no more big updates, but they would look at what improvements (or tweaks as he put it) could be made where it was efficient to do so, as long as it doesn't take the focus away from next year's car.

So I wonder what they can actually do, considering the time it takes to go through the various processes of designing and getting the upgrades on to the car?
I suppose someone living in hope would say they have a killer tweak and don't want to put it on show too soon :mrgreen:
I disagree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it-
Voltaire, or several other claimants.

dans79
dans79
399
Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2013 6:33 pm
Location: USA

Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

Post

Marty_Y wrote:
Wed Sep 15, 2021 9:29 pm
So I wonder what they can actually do, considering the time it takes to go through the various processes of designing and getting the upgrades on to the car?
Sometimes they don't have to design or make anything, they just have to use what they currently have in a slightly different way.
176 101 100 7

User avatar
ringo
240
Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2009 9:57 am

Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

Post

The easiest job is to bring more power to the engine. It will not disturb the chassis design guys from what they are doing. More power will increase scope for setup. The car is more powerful than the Honda now, either by technical directive against Honda, or engine maps from better understanding engine life to increase power and thus damage and knowing how far they can with the limited number of units.
For Sure!!

Marty_Y
Marty_Y
35
Joined: Wed Mar 31, 2021 10:37 pm

Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

Post

Thoughts from the triple header,

Belgian Grand Prix, Spa-Francorchamps- wet qualification and no race, so unable to determine the true competitive order.

Dutch Grand Prix, Zandvoort- Red Bull 0.038 seconds faster in qualification and had a narrow advantage in the race, mainly because Mercedes were losing as much as 0.2 seconds a lap at turn 2 to 3 as mentioned in this article,
https://www.racefans.net/2021/09/04/ham ... urn-three/
Before the weekend began, Hamilton’s team mate Valtteri Bottas suggested Zandvoort’s new banked corners would put Mercedes at a disadvantage. Hamilton believes this is a key area where they are losing time to Red Bull.
“It is mainly the exit of two they’re a lot quicker and particularly through three they’re a lot quicker,” he said, putting the time loss at “close to two tenths” of a second on his final flying lap.
“It’s difficult to say exactly what it is but there’s some characteristic of our car that doesn’t like that corner. But still it’s incredibly fun.”
Italian Grand Prix, Monza- Mercedes 0.411 seconds faster in qualification and won the sprint comfortably, Mercedes seemed to have a narrow advantage over Red Bull and McLaren in race pace.

Looking forward to the Russian Grand Prix, Sochi- historically no other constructor except for Mercedes has ever won in Russia, but this season that probably doesn't count for much. However I think Mercedes will have a narrow pace advantage, plus Max has a 3 place grid penalty which will hopefully give Mercedes the chance to put both cars Infront of him at the start of the race.

User avatar
SiLo
128
Joined: Sun Jul 25, 2010 6:09 pm

Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

Post

I think Mercedes will rue not winning at Monza and also have no dry Spa. I was fully expecting two race wins there, instead they got breadcrumbs and a bill of repairs.
Felipe Baby!

Gillian
Gillian
18
Joined: Thu May 27, 2021 8:46 pm

Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

Post

ringo wrote:
Wed Sep 15, 2021 8:34 pm
Gillian wrote:
Wed Sep 15, 2021 6:29 pm
And I personally see a lot of similarities between Hamiltons early days and Verstappens. But that's my personal opinion.

Don't forget how young Verstappen is btw. Pretty similar to when Hamilton just came in to F1
I think we are dealing with two different drivers in terms of temperament and entitlement.

At 23 both were super confident. LH more quiet and in the mclaren camp more careful with his words.
MV more entitled and was told to believe his the best, and that he is never wrong. I think there are too many mentors in Max's life, and all of them are not the best type to have and they have defined who he is and how he reacts and responds on and off the track.
I don't recall LH cursing in the car, or to any one, or fighting anyone, bullying, and all of that type of spoiled brat behavior. His team bosses also encouraged profesionalism at all times. Lewis was forced to be more mature earlier, as Mclaren under Ron was a more professional team than Redbull. LH being 23 year old young man has been molded differently and was somewhat more self defining.
Max at 17 just would absorb and learn most of his behavior from the Redbull tribe which is unfortunate. His comments after crashing into Hamilton pretty much sums up how his mind works and how he was groomed to behave.

As for driving yes there are similarities at the beginning of LH career with where Max is now. The both push the limits.
They do it differently. The race craft is also different. LH was mostly defensive and unobtrusive when he does overtake. Max is more direct with overtaking and less tidy. There are more differences than similarities.

Max is actually more like Senna than any other driver since Senna.

Hamilton is more like Shumacher in terms of craft and finer details.

The sticking point with Max is that 7 years of experience in F-1 should factor more than his age of 23. 7 Years is senior driver's career. Drivers can be looking to leave the sport after driving for 7 years.
It is funny how I disagree on crucial points of what you are saying, yet I agree on most of your conclusion. Max is the first driver that makes me feel like I am watching Senna again and with Hamilton I always felt he is more resembling Schumacher, but less ruthless most of the time.

I can only encourage you to take all the media with a grain of salt and actually listen to what Verstappen himself says in press conferences and interviews.

Gillian
Gillian
18
Joined: Thu May 27, 2021 8:46 pm

Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

Post

NathanOlder wrote:
Wed Sep 15, 2021 9:53 pm
Gillian wrote:
Wed Sep 15, 2021 7:50 pm
I'm sorry but that's it literally what his engineer tells him over the radio. They stopped him and ask him to go slow so that Hamilton has a free stop at the end. Just listen to the radio.
You said they pitted him , so Lewis had a free stop. I was pointing out that wasn't the case as they already had well over a pit stop gap behind Lewis.
The point is not if it was a necessary. The point is the team made the decision to clear Bottas out of the way for Hamilton. I agree it was not necessary but apparently the team thought it was. So yes they pitted him to make room for Hamilton. Why? I don't know, but they did. The radio message proves it.

User avatar
NathanOlder
166
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2012 9:05 am
Location: Kent

Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

Post

Gillian wrote:
Thu Sep 16, 2021 8:40 am
NathanOlder wrote:
Wed Sep 15, 2021 9:53 pm
Gillian wrote:
Wed Sep 15, 2021 7:50 pm
I'm sorry but that's it literally what his engineer tells him over the radio. They stopped him and ask him to go slow so that Hamilton has a free stop at the end. Just listen to the radio.
You said they pitted him , so Lewis had a free stop. I was pointing out that wasn't the case as they already had well over a pit stop gap behind Lewis.
The point is not if it was a necessary. The point is the team made the decision to clear Bottas out of the way for Hamilton. I agree it was not necessary but apparently the team thought it was. So yes they pitted him to make room for Hamilton. Why? I don't know, but they did. The radio message proves it.
Well here's my take on the situation, Bottas was already out of Lewis' pit window as he was 28 seconds behind. The radio message you mention happened while Bottas was in the pit lane, so at this point Hamilton will be 50+ seconds ahead of Bottas.
They tell Bottas not to push as they are already aware Lewis will be coming in on Bottas out lap. This reduces the gap back to the 28 second mark, but if Bottas pushes hard he will reduce the gap to Lewis very fast and then be possibly closing the pit window margin Lewis had to Bottas. Mercedes wanted to keep a gap between Bot and Ham at over 25sec so Lewis always had a pit window behind him, even if it was for the last 2 laps of the race in case Lewis had an unexpected puncture or problem.
GoLandoGo
Lewis v2.0
King George has arrived.

New found love for GT racing with Assetto Corsa Competizione on PS5 & PC