This is wrong also, he was 28 seconds behind Hamilton, and it was a 24 seconds loss time in the pits. So even if they left Bottas out, Lewis still had plenty of room for a free stop.Gillian wrote: ↑Wed Sep 15, 2021 4:34 pmThis already happened in Zandvoort. They pitted him so he would not be in the way of Hamilton. They even told him that's why (check clip below). Not literally what you are saying but still the same effect because he did not need to stop yet at that moment nor did he got the chance to drive as fast as he could (as in the team did not want him to and he obliged).El Scorchio wrote: ↑Wed Sep 15, 2021 11:18 amIn which case, I'd imagine they'll just start holding him in the pits to clear Hamilton past him if they absolutely have to. Would be a sad state of affairs if it came to that, and I can't see it. I'm sure they'll give him a win if they get the opportunity.
I don't blame them perse. He took his time on occasion to let Hamilton passed so they are not taking a risk anymore. Bottas won't be winning the WDC against Verstappen so backing Hamilton who can is the right choice.
I think we are dealing with two different drivers in terms of temperament and entitlement.
A slam dunk case of projection I think...
You said they pitted him , so Lewis had a free stop. I was pointing out that wasn't the case as they already had well over a pit stop gap behind Lewis.
I suppose someone living in hope would say they have a killer tweak and don't want to put it on show too soonMarty_Y wrote: ↑Wed Sep 15, 2021 9:29 pmFrom the race debrief,
"looking at the learnings from those 3 races, list of problems that we need to get stuck into, areas we can improve, possibilities for development."
It's interesting that he mentions "possibilities for development" because I remember James Allison saying (in the Silverstone debrief video) that there would be no more big updates, but they would look at what improvements (or tweaks as he put it) could be made where it was efficient to do so, as long as it doesn't take the focus away from next year's car.
So I wonder what they can actually do, considering the time it takes to go through the various processes of designing and getting the upgrades on to the car?
Sometimes they don't have to design or make anything, they just have to use what they currently have in a slightly different way.
Italian Grand Prix, Monza- Mercedes 0.411 seconds faster in qualification and won the sprint comfortably, Mercedes seemed to have a narrow advantage over Red Bull and McLaren in race pace.Before the weekend began, Hamilton’s team mate Valtteri Bottas suggested Zandvoort’s new banked corners would put Mercedes at a disadvantage. Hamilton believes this is a key area where they are losing time to Red Bull.
“It is mainly the exit of two they’re a lot quicker and particularly through three they’re a lot quicker,” he said, putting the time loss at “close to two tenths” of a second on his final flying lap.
“It’s difficult to say exactly what it is but there’s some characteristic of our car that doesn’t like that corner. But still it’s incredibly fun.”
It is funny how I disagree on crucial points of what you are saying, yet I agree on most of your conclusion. Max is the first driver that makes me feel like I am watching Senna again and with Hamilton I always felt he is more resembling Schumacher, but less ruthless most of the time.ringo wrote: ↑Wed Sep 15, 2021 8:34 pmI think we are dealing with two different drivers in terms of temperament and entitlement.
At 23 both were super confident. LH more quiet and in the mclaren camp more careful with his words.
MV more entitled and was told to believe his the best, and that he is never wrong. I think there are too many mentors in Max's life, and all of them are not the best type to have and they have defined who he is and how he reacts and responds on and off the track.
I don't recall LH cursing in the car, or to any one, or fighting anyone, bullying, and all of that type of spoiled brat behavior. His team bosses also encouraged profesionalism at all times. Lewis was forced to be more mature earlier, as Mclaren under Ron was a more professional team than Redbull. LH being 23 year old young man has been molded differently and was somewhat more self defining.
Max at 17 just would absorb and learn most of his behavior from the Redbull tribe which is unfortunate. His comments after crashing into Hamilton pretty much sums up how his mind works and how he was groomed to behave.
As for driving yes there are similarities at the beginning of LH career with where Max is now. The both push the limits.
They do it differently. The race craft is also different. LH was mostly defensive and unobtrusive when he does overtake. Max is more direct with overtaking and less tidy. There are more differences than similarities.
Max is actually more like Senna than any other driver since Senna.
Hamilton is more like Shumacher in terms of craft and finer details.
The sticking point with Max is that 7 years of experience in F-1 should factor more than his age of 23. 7 Years is senior driver's career. Drivers can be looking to leave the sport after driving for 7 years.
The point is not if it was a necessary. The point is the team made the decision to clear Bottas out of the way for Hamilton. I agree it was not necessary but apparently the team thought it was. So yes they pitted him to make room for Hamilton. Why? I don't know, but they did. The radio message proves it.NathanOlder wrote: ↑Wed Sep 15, 2021 9:53 pmYou said they pitted him , so Lewis had a free stop. I was pointing out that wasn't the case as they already had well over a pit stop gap behind Lewis.
Well here's my take on the situation, Bottas was already out of Lewis' pit window as he was 28 seconds behind. The radio message you mention happened while Bottas was in the pit lane, so at this point Hamilton will be 50+ seconds ahead of Bottas.Gillian wrote: ↑Thu Sep 16, 2021 8:40 amThe point is not if it was a necessary. The point is the team made the decision to clear Bottas out of the way for Hamilton. I agree it was not necessary but apparently the team thought it was. So yes they pitted him to make room for Hamilton. Why? I don't know, but they did. The radio message proves it.NathanOlder wrote: ↑Wed Sep 15, 2021 9:53 pmYou said they pitted him , so Lewis had a free stop. I was pointing out that wasn't the case as they already had well over a pit stop gap behind Lewis.