2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

This forum contains threads to discuss teams themselves. Anything not technical about the cars, including restructuring, performances etc belongs here.
maxxer
maxxer
0
Joined: Mon May 13, 2013 11:01 am

Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

Post

ringo wrote:
Wed Sep 15, 2021 8:34 pm
Gillian wrote:
Wed Sep 15, 2021 6:29 pm
And I personally see a lot of similarities between Hamiltons early days and Verstappens. But that's my personal opinion.

Don't forget how young Verstappen is btw. Pretty similar to when Hamilton just came in to F1
I think we are dealing with two different drivers in terms of temperament and entitlement.

At 23 both were super confident. LH more quiet and in the mclaren camp more careful with his words.
MV more entitled and was told to believe his the best, and that he is never wrong. I think there are too many mentors in Max's life, and all of them are not the best type to have and they have defined who he is and how he reacts and responds on and off the track.
I don't recall LH cursing in the car, or to any one, or fighting anyone, bullying, and all of that type of spoiled brat behavior. His team bosses also encouraged profesionalism at all times. Lewis was forced to be more mature earlier, as Mclaren under Ron was a more professional team than Redbull. LH being 23 year old young man has been molded differently and was somewhat more self defining.
Max at 17 just would absorb and learn most of his behavior from the Redbull tribe which is unfortunate. His comments after crashing into Hamilton pretty much sums up how his mind works and how he was groomed to behave.

As for driving yes there are similarities at the beginning of LH career with where Max is now. The both push the limits.
They do it differently. The race craft is also different. LH was mostly defensive and unobtrusive when he does overtake. Max is more direct with overtaking and less tidy. There are more differences than similarities.

Max is actually more like Senna than any other driver since Senna.

Hamilton is more like Shumacher in terms of craft and finer details.

The sticking point with Max is that 7 years of experience in F-1 should factor more than his age of 23. 7 Years is senior driver's career. Drivers can be looking to leave the sport after driving for 7 years.
Dont think a driver would dare to speak like that on the radio when Ron is in charge , even after the botched pitstop

Just_a_fan
Just_a_fan
777
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2010 7:37 pm

Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

Post

ringo wrote:
Wed Sep 15, 2021 8:34 pm

I don't recall LH cursing in the car, or to any one, or fighting anyone, bullying, and all of that type of spoiled brat behavior. His team bosses also encouraged profesionalism at all times. Lewis was forced to be more mature earlier, as Mclaren under Ron was a more professional team than Redbull. LH being 23 year old young man has been molded differently and was somewhat more self defining.
I wouldn't say they were more professional - all of the teams are totally professional these days. I'd say that there was a more old-fashioned attitude to the relationships within the team, however. And a driver wouldn't swear over the radio at Ron more than once, I'm sure. A severe "interview without coffee" would have ensued if they had.

And I think the issue for Lewis was that he couldn't be self-defining. He had to fit in to Ron's idea of the driver and his role. That's partly what drove him to go to Mercedes, I think. Mercedes have very much allowed him to be the person he wants to be.

Ron wouldn't have painted his cars black for BLM, that's for certain. :lol:
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

aMessageToCharlie
aMessageToCharlie
9
Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2020 1:28 pm

Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

Post

Gillian wrote:
Thu Sep 16, 2021 8:38 am
ringo wrote:
Wed Sep 15, 2021 8:34 pm
Gillian wrote:
Wed Sep 15, 2021 6:29 pm
And I personally see a lot of similarities between Hamiltons early days and Verstappens. But that's my personal opinion.

Don't forget how young Verstappen is btw. Pretty similar to when Hamilton just came in to F1
I think we are dealing with two different drivers in terms of temperament and entitlement.

At 23 both were super confident. LH more quiet and in the mclaren camp more careful with his words.
MV more entitled and was told to believe his the best, and that he is never wrong. I think there are too many mentors in Max's life, and all of them are not the best type to have and they have defined who he is and how he reacts and responds on and off the track.
I don't recall LH cursing in the car, or to any one, or fighting anyone, bullying, and all of that type of spoiled brat behavior. His team bosses also encouraged profesionalism at all times. Lewis was forced to be more mature earlier, as Mclaren under Ron was a more professional team than Redbull. LH being 23 year old young man has been molded differently and was somewhat more self defining.
Max at 17 just would absorb and learn most of his behavior from the Redbull tribe which is unfortunate. His comments after crashing into Hamilton pretty much sums up how his mind works and how he was groomed to behave.

As for driving yes there are similarities at the beginning of LH career with where Max is now. The both push the limits.
They do it differently. The race craft is also different. LH was mostly defensive and unobtrusive when he does overtake. Max is more direct with overtaking and less tidy. There are more differences than similarities.

Max is actually more like Senna than any other driver since Senna.

Hamilton is more like Shumacher in terms of craft and finer details.

The sticking point with Max is that 7 years of experience in F-1 should factor more than his age of 23. 7 Years is senior driver's career. Drivers can be looking to leave the sport after driving for 7 years.
It is funny how I disagree on crucial points of what you are saying, yet I agree on most of your conclusion. Max is the first driver that makes me feel like I am watching Senna again and with Hamilton I always felt he is more resembling Schumacher, but less ruthless most of the time.

I can only encourage you to take all the media with a grain of salt and actually listen to what Verstappen himself says in press conferences and interviews.
This.

Also I think there's bit of a rose tint glasses effect. LH wasnt ever a saint either and there is no reason to pretend otherwise.

-had a fall-out with his wdc team mate in 2007
-lying scandal in 2009
-made jokes about racism
-crashes every other race in 2011
-constantly complaining about the car and RBRs advantage in 2010-13 (even though it was nothing compared to the Merc dominance)
-posted confidential telemetry on twitter (lol) to show how he's being disadvantaged by his team

Drivers don’t need to be slick nobodys - F1 is about entertainment.

maxxer
maxxer
0
Joined: Mon May 13, 2013 11:01 am

Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

Post

Just_a_fan wrote:
Thu Sep 16, 2021 11:01 am
ringo wrote:
Wed Sep 15, 2021 8:34 pm

I don't recall LH cursing in the car, or to any one, or fighting anyone, bullying, and all of that type of spoiled brat behavior. His team bosses also encouraged profesionalism at all times. Lewis was forced to be more mature earlier, as Mclaren under Ron was a more professional team than Redbull. LH being 23 year old young man has been molded differently and was somewhat more self defining.
I wouldn't say they were more professional - all of the teams are totally professional these days. I'd say that there was a more old-fashioned attitude to the relationships within the team, however. And a driver wouldn't swear over the radio at Ron more than once, I'm sure. A severe "interview without coffee" would have ensued if they had.

And I think the issue for Lewis was that he couldn't be self-defining. He had to fit in to Ron's idea of the driver and his role. That's partly what drove him to go to Mercedes, I think. Mercedes have very much allowed him to be the person he wants to be.

Ron wouldn't have painted his cars black for BLM, that's for certain. :lol:
:D

User avatar
adrianjordan
99
Joined: Sun Feb 28, 2010 10:34 am
Location: West Yorkshire, England

Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

Post

Just_a_fan wrote:
Thu Sep 16, 2021 11:01 am
ringo wrote:
Wed Sep 15, 2021 8:34 pm

I don't recall LH cursing in the car, or to any one, or fighting anyone, bullying, and all of that type of spoiled brat behavior. His team bosses also encouraged profesionalism at all times. Lewis was forced to be more mature earlier, as Mclaren under Ron was a more professional team than Redbull. LH being 23 year old young man has been molded differently and was somewhat more self defining.
I wouldn't say they were more professional - all of the teams are totally professional these days. I'd say that there was a more old-fashioned attitude to the relationships within the team, however. And a driver wouldn't swear over the radio at Ron more than once, I'm sure. A severe "interview without coffee" would have ensued if they had.

And I think the issue for Lewis was that he couldn't be self-defining. He had to fit in to Ron's idea of the driver and his role. That's partly what drove him to go to Mercedes, I think. Mercedes have very much allowed him to be the person he wants to be.

Ron wouldn't have painted his cars black for BLM, that's for certain. :lol:
Ron would have pointed out that Grey lives matter....
Lando Norris: "Such a great driver"
Daniel Ricciardo: "Darren" 🤣

Just_a_fan
Just_a_fan
777
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2010 7:37 pm

Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

Post

adrianjordan wrote:
Thu Sep 16, 2021 3:27 pm
Just_a_fan wrote:
Thu Sep 16, 2021 11:01 am


Ron wouldn't have painted his cars black for BLM, that's for certain. :lol:
Ron would have pointed out that Grey lives matter....
:lol: =D>
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

User avatar
Morteza
2612
Joined: Wed Feb 10, 2010 5:23 pm
Location: Bushehr, Iran

Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

Post

"A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool."~William Shakespeare

User avatar
Big Tea
165
Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2017 7:57 pm

Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

Post

aMessageToCharlie wrote:
Thu Sep 16, 2021 11:20 am
Gillian wrote:
Thu Sep 16, 2021 8:38 am
ringo wrote:
Wed Sep 15, 2021 8:34 pm


I think we are dealing with two different drivers in terms of temperament and entitlement.

At 23 both were super confident. LH more quiet and in the mclaren camp more careful with his words.
MV more entitled and was told to believe his the best, and that he is never wrong. I think there are too many mentors in Max's life, and all of them are not the best type to have and they have defined who he is and how he reacts and responds on and off the track.
I don't recall LH cursing in the car, or to any one, or fighting anyone, bullying, and all of that type of spoiled brat behavior. His team bosses also encouraged profesionalism at all times. Lewis was forced to be more mature earlier, as Mclaren under Ron was a more professional team than Redbull. LH being 23 year old young man has been molded differently and was somewhat more self defining.
Max at 17 just would absorb and learn most of his behavior from the Redbull tribe which is unfortunate. His comments after crashing into Hamilton pretty much sums up how his mind works and how he was groomed to behave.

As for driving yes there are similarities at the beginning of LH career with where Max is now. The both push the limits.
They do it differently. The race craft is also different. LH was mostly defensive and unobtrusive when he does overtake. Max is more direct with overtaking and less tidy. There are more differences than similarities.

Max is actually more like Senna than any other driver since Senna.

Hamilton is more like Shumacher in terms of craft and finer details.

The sticking point with Max is that 7 years of experience in F-1 should factor more than his age of 23. 7 Years is senior driver's career. Drivers can be looking to leave the sport after driving for 7 years.
It is funny how I disagree on crucial points of what you are saying, yet I agree on most of your conclusion. Max is the first driver that makes me feel like I am watching Senna again and with Hamilton I always felt he is more resembling Schumacher, but less ruthless most of the time.

I can only encourage you to take all the media with a grain of salt and actually listen to what Verstappen himself says in press conferences and interviews.
This.

Also I think there's bit of a rose tint glasses effect. LH wasnt ever a saint either and there is no reason to pretend otherwise.

-had a fall-out with his wdc team mate in 2007
-lying scandal in 2009
-made jokes about racism
-crashes every other race in 2011
-constantly complaining about the car and RBRs advantage in 2010-13 (even though it was nothing compared to the Merc dominance)
-posted confidential telemetry on twitter (lol) to show how he's being disadvantaged by his team

Drivers don’t need to be slick nobodys - F1 is about entertainment.
Makes you think that if a driver is so bad, how poor must those that can not beat him must be :mrgreen:
I disagree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it-
Voltaire, or several other claimants.

User avatar
ringo
240
Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2009 9:57 am

Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

Post

The gearbox..
Could LH gearbox be damaged?
They still have GB penalties in F1? Havent seen one in a while.
For Sure!!

cooken
cooken
12
Joined: Tue Apr 02, 2013 12:57 am

Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

Post

Free change for a DNF.

aMessageToCharlie
aMessageToCharlie
9
Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2020 1:28 pm

Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

Post

Big Tea wrote:
Thu Sep 16, 2021 10:56 pm
aMessageToCharlie wrote:
Thu Sep 16, 2021 11:20 am
Gillian wrote:
Thu Sep 16, 2021 8:38 am


It is funny how I disagree on crucial points of what you are saying, yet I agree on most of your conclusion. Max is the first driver that makes me feel like I am watching Senna again and with Hamilton I always felt he is more resembling Schumacher, but less ruthless most of the time.

I can only encourage you to take all the media with a grain of salt and actually listen to what Verstappen himself says in press conferences and interviews.
This.

Also I think there's bit of a rose tint glasses effect. LH wasnt ever a saint either and there is no reason to pretend otherwise.

-had a fall-out with his wdc team mate in 2007
-lying scandal in 2009
-made jokes about racism
-crashes every other race in 2011
-constantly complaining about the car and RBRs advantage in 2010-13 (even though it was nothing compared to the Merc dominance)
-posted confidential telemetry on twitter (lol) to show how he's being disadvantaged by his team

Drivers don’t need to be slick nobodys - F1 is about entertainment.
Makes you think that if a driver is so bad, how poor must those that can not beat him must be :mrgreen:
I didnt say anyone was "so bad", I said "no saint either" and posted some examples as people seem to have a very one-sided view. No need to be offended. We all make mistakes and there is no need to pretend otherwise.

holeindalip
holeindalip
16
Joined: Tue Jun 11, 2013 12:58 am
Location: Decatur,IL USA

Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

Post

aMessageToCharlie wrote:
Thu Sep 16, 2021 11:20 am
Gillian wrote:
Thu Sep 16, 2021 8:38 am
ringo wrote:
Wed Sep 15, 2021 8:34 pm


I think we are dealing with two different drivers in terms of temperament and entitlement.

At 23 both were super confident. LH more quiet and in the mclaren camp more careful with his words.
MV more entitled and was told to believe his the best, and that he is never wrong. I think there are too many mentors in Max's life, and all of them are not the best type to have and they have defined who he is and how he reacts and responds on and off the track.
I don't recall LH cursing in the car, or to any one, or fighting anyone, bullying, and all of that type of spoiled brat behavior. His team bosses also encouraged profesionalism at all times. Lewis was forced to be more mature earlier, as Mclaren under Ron was a more professional team than Redbull. LH being 23 year old young man has been molded differently and was somewhat more self defining.
Max at 17 just would absorb and learn most of his behavior from the Redbull tribe which is unfortunate. His comments after crashing into Hamilton pretty much sums up how his mind works and how he was groomed to behave.

As for driving yes there are similarities at the beginning of LH career with where Max is now. The both push the limits.
They do it differently. The race craft is also different. LH was mostly defensive and unobtrusive when he does overtake. Max is more direct with overtaking and less tidy. There are more differences than similarities.

Max is actually more like Senna than any other driver since Senna.

Hamilton is more like Shumacher in terms of craft and finer details.

The sticking point with Max is that 7 years of experience in F-1 should factor more than his age of 23. 7 Years is senior driver's career. Drivers can be looking to leave the sport after driving for 7 years.
It is funny how I disagree on crucial points of what you are saying, yet I agree on most of your conclusion. Max is the first driver that makes me feel like I am watching Senna again and with Hamilton I always felt he is more resembling Schumacher, but less ruthless most of the time.

I can only encourage you to take all the media with a grain of salt and actually listen to what Verstappen himself says in press conferences and interviews.
This.

Also I think there's bit of a rose tint glasses effect. LH wasnt ever a saint either and there is no reason to pretend otherwise.

-had a fall-out with his wdc team mate in 2007
-lying scandal in 2009
-made jokes about racism
-crashes every other race in 2011
-constantly complaining about the car and RBRs advantage in 2010-13 (even though it was nothing compared to the Merc dominance)
-posted confidential telemetry on twitter (lol) to show how he's being disadvantaged by his team

Drivers don’t need to be slick nobodys - F1 is about entertainment.
I dont think Lewis had a fallout with Alonso, it was more Alonso having a fallout with the team.
Alonso has stated that pretty recently….

User avatar
PlatinumZealot
531
Joined: Thu Jun 12, 2008 2:45 am

Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

Post

Yeah. Remember the bromance between Lewis and Alonso when Vettel was winning in his RedBulls? It was like, we have one common enemy so we can be friends!
. . . . . .. .... ..

Tvetovnato
Tvetovnato
1
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2021 3:03 pm

Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

Post

holeindalip wrote:
Fri Sep 17, 2021 4:06 pm
aMessageToCharlie wrote:
Thu Sep 16, 2021 11:20 am
Gillian wrote:
Thu Sep 16, 2021 8:38 am


It is funny how I disagree on crucial points of what you are saying, yet I agree on most of your conclusion. Max is the first driver that makes me feel like I am watching Senna again and with Hamilton I always felt he is more resembling Schumacher, but less ruthless most of the time.

I can only encourage you to take all the media with a grain of salt and actually listen to what Verstappen himself says in press conferences and interviews.
This.

Also I think there's bit of a rose tint glasses effect. LH wasnt ever a saint either and there is no reason to pretend otherwise.

-had a fall-out with his wdc team mate in 2007
-lying scandal in 2009
-made jokes about racism
-crashes every other race in 2011
-constantly complaining about the car and RBRs advantage in 2010-13 (even though it was nothing compared to the Merc dominance)
-posted confidential telemetry on twitter (lol) to show how he's being disadvantaged by his team

Drivers don’t need to be slick nobodys - F1 is about entertainment.
I dont think Lewis had a fallout with Alonso, it was more Alonso having a fallout with the team.
Alonso has stated that pretty recently….
Yep. The ”fallout” with Alonso was for sure a media created story above anything else. When looking at Alonso’s history with his other teams following that, it’s not hard to see that he can be quite a difficult person to work with when things don’t go his way. Like when a rookie challenges him pretty much instantly and starts to beat him fair and square.

User avatar
RZS10
237
Joined: Sat Dec 07, 2013 12:23 am

Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

Post

Marty_Y wrote:
Wed Sep 15, 2021 6:42 pm
Very first question ... did they really prepare for a start on M with Lewis (i have no clue what tyres they were doing their practice starts on)? Wolff initially said that he just held the clutch for too long (same as at the sprint start in Silverstone iirc) and both times they later claimed something else (miscalculated tyre temps).
It's two starts with lighter fuel in the sprint races and both were suboptimal whilst most of the other starts were fine.