2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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zibby43
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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A little bit of intel on when Hamilton will be taking his 4th PU:


dans79
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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zibby43 wrote:
Tue Sep 28, 2021 7:46 pm
A little bit of intel on when Hamilton will be taking his 4th PU:

https://twitter.com/vetteleclerc/status ... 71009?s=21

That kind of reads like someone fishing for a story, throwing so many random quotes and statements together.
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Tvetovnato
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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Not so sure Mexico would be the right place to take it anyway. The high altitude will make the DRS less effective, so a high risk of a tow train.

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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Juzh wrote:
Tue Sep 28, 2021 10:15 am
PlatinumZealot wrote:
Mon Sep 27, 2021 7:33 pm
Fight for the Championship Race Track Outlook

Tyre Characteristics of tracks at which Mercedes were comfortably fastest:

Shocking that Merc only been clearly faster on three tracks! And I have double checked! :shock:

Monza -Q3 Gap to rival 0.3s
Traction 3
Braking 4
Lateral 2
Tyre Stress 5
Asphalt grip 2
Asphalt abrasion 3
Downforce 1

Hungary -Q3 Gap to rival 0.4s
Traction 3
Braking 2
Lateral 4
Tyre Stress 3
Asphalt grip 3
Asphalt abrasion 2
Downforce 5

Portimao -Q3 Gap to rival 0.4s
Traction 4
Braking 4
Lateral 3
Tyre Stress 4
Asphalt grip ? (low from observation )
Asphalt abrasion ? (low from observation)
Downforce 4

It seems the car favours medium traction tracks (3 to 4), with moderate to high tyre stress (3 to 5). The car also had an advantage on slipperier tracks Asphalt grip and abrasion (low).


Upcoming Track

Istanbul Park

Traction 4
Braking 3
Lateral 4
Tyre Stress 5
Asphalt grip ? (expected to be low)
Asphalt abrasion ? (expected to be low)
Downforce 4

Judging by Istanbul Park's tyre parameters, Mercedes should in theory be ahead of RedBull! Well, the lateral rating of 4 mirrors Hungary, but Mercedes were stronger than RedBull there. So fingers crossed!
You missed silverstone where Hamilton should have been around 0.3 clear of Verstappen in qualifying but messed up final corner. His Q3 lap that was good enough for pole was slower than his Q2 lap, just goes to show they had a pretty big advantage there already.
Not sure if he used up the tyres too much in the first two sectors why he overcooked it in the third so can't really say if he could have gained 3 tenths. Can only go by the actual records.

Silverstone does have high tyre stress (5) on the Pirelli charts. If this hypothesis is true, the car should go well at Turkey. Bottas then needs to up his game. It would be interesting if the McLarens run well there too.

Image
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basti313
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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Tvetovnato wrote:
Tue Sep 28, 2021 9:05 pm
Not so sure Mexico would be the right place to take it anyway. The high altitude will make the DRS less effective, so a high risk of a tow train.
Does not matter. There is anyways a risk of not coming in at P3...and with starting last they will at least go to something like P6. Ver went in 2019 from dead last on a compromised strategy to P6. So they really do not loose much.

And with Qatar it is exactly the middle...5 races on the previous engine, 5 races afterwards.

holeindalip
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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basti313 wrote:
Tue Sep 28, 2021 9:44 pm
Tvetovnato wrote:
Tue Sep 28, 2021 9:05 pm
Not so sure Mexico would be the right place to take it anyway. The high altitude will make the DRS less effective, so a high risk of a tow train.
Does not matter. There is anyways a risk of not coming in at P3...and with starting last they will at least go to something like P6. Ver went in 2019 from dead last on a compromised strategy to P6. So they really do not loose much.

And with Qatar it is exactly the middle...5 races on the previous engine, 5 races afterwards.
Yeah but the midfield cars are much closer in relative speed to the front runners than in 2019.

zibby43
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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dans79 wrote:
Tue Sep 28, 2021 8:52 pm
zibby43 wrote:
Tue Sep 28, 2021 7:46 pm
A little bit of intel on when Hamilton will be taking his 4th PU:

https://twitter.com/vetteleclerc/status ... 71009?s=21

That kind of reads like someone fishing for a story, throwing so many random quotes and statements together.
Michael Schmidt is usually pretty reliable. He at least has direct access to the TPs and the teams’ engineers.

Maybe it comes across strange because tami is translating from his video segments for AMuS.

Which part seemed off to you?

basti313
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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holeindalip wrote:
Tue Sep 28, 2021 9:55 pm
basti313 wrote:
Tue Sep 28, 2021 9:44 pm
Tvetovnato wrote:
Tue Sep 28, 2021 9:05 pm
Not so sure Mexico would be the right place to take it anyway. The high altitude will make the DRS less effective, so a high risk of a tow train.
Does not matter. There is anyways a risk of not coming in at P3...and with starting last they will at least go to something like P6. Ver went in 2019 from dead last on a compromised strategy to P6. So they really do not loose much.

And with Qatar it is exactly the middle...5 races on the previous engine, 5 races afterwards.
Yeah but the midfield cars are much closer in relative speed to the front runners than in 2019.
Dunno...Monza was hard on the tires and, thus, overtaking champ Bottas still went to P3 (P5 without the crashboys). Mexico is similarly difficult in terms of strategy and from competitive point of view Merc was the only team in 2019 being able to do a 1 stop with starting softer without position loss.
Seeing how difficult it is to overtake I can see Mexico as maybe the only possible track besides COTA. 50:50 I would say.

dans79
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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zibby43 wrote:
Tue Sep 28, 2021 10:02 pm
Which part seemed off to you?
The way it flows.

it starts off with a conversation with toto. It then jumps to someone random opinion about what Lewis and Vettel stopping in Zandvoort means (even though we haven't heard anything about root cause ). Then it jumps to saying that per unnamed sources Vettel & Stroll, and Norris and Ricciardo will all have to take penalties. Then it alludes hamilton will need to as well.

I just find it questiable/convenient that the claim is ever Merc powered car besides Russell will need a need a 4th PU.



Just a few days ago Toto said this.
https://www.gpblog.com/en/news/94820/me ... ngine.html
All the teams are having a hard time getting through the season in terms of engines," Wolff told Speedweek.com. "It's not just about durability, but also the extent to which an engine loses power over the course of its life. A dropout while your rival is winning means you need at least four good races to make up for that.
We are keeping a close eye on how the engines are performing in terms of stability, at the moment we don't see any difficulties. But we are looking at it from weekend to weekend. We don't want to rush things. It can also happen that you get involved in an incident during a weekend and have to start from the back anyway. That would then be the ideal moment to replace the engine,
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holeindalip
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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basti313 wrote:
Tue Sep 28, 2021 10:11 pm
holeindalip wrote:
Tue Sep 28, 2021 9:55 pm
basti313 wrote:
Tue Sep 28, 2021 9:44 pm

Does not matter. There is anyways a risk of not coming in at P3...and with starting last they will at least go to something like P6. Ver went in 2019 from dead last on a compromised strategy to P6. So they really do not loose much.

And with Qatar it is exactly the middle...5 races on the previous engine, 5 races afterwards.
Yeah but the midfield cars are much closer in relative speed to the front runners than in 2019.
Dunno...Monza was hard on the tires and, thus, overtaking champ Bottas still went to P3 (P5 without the crashboys). Mexico is similarly difficult in terms of strategy and from competitive point of view Merc was the only team in 2019 being able to do a 1 stop with starting softer without position loss.
Seeing how difficult it is to overtake I can see Mexico as maybe the only possible track besides COTA. 50:50 I would say.
I agree, it’s a coin toss nowadays with the aerodynamic sensitivity. Seems like tracks that were feasible to pass on 3-4 years ago are now almost impossible without a huge delta…guess Toto is going to have to choose the lesser of the two evils and we will all sit back and see how this pans out… anyone know when the last Honda powered car went out with pu issues?

zibby43
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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This is phenomenal.


b2bL44
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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dans79 wrote:
Tue Sep 28, 2021 10:23 pm
zibby43 wrote:
Tue Sep 28, 2021 10:02 pm
Which part seemed off to you?
The way it flows.

it starts off with a conversation with toto. It then jumps to someone random opinion about what Lewis and Vettel stopping in Zandvoort means (even though we haven't heard anything about root cause ). Then it jumps to saying that per unnamed sources Vettel & Stroll, and Norris and Ricciardo will all have to take penalties. Then it alludes hamilton will need to as well.

I just find it questiable/convenient that the claim is ever Merc powered car besides Russell will need a need a 4th PU.



Just a few days ago Toto said this.
https://www.gpblog.com/en/news/94820/me ... ngine.html
All the teams are having a hard time getting through the season in terms of engines," Wolff told Speedweek.com. "It's not just about durability, but also the extent to which an engine loses power over the course of its life. A dropout while your rival is winning means you need at least four good races to make up for that.
We are keeping a close eye on how the engines are performing in terms of stability, at the moment we don't see any difficulties. But we are looking at it from weekend to weekend. We don't want to rush things. It can also happen that you get involved in an incident during a weekend and have to start from the back anyway. That would then be the ideal moment to replace the engine,
Yours is an opinion, Michal Schmidt is reporting information gathered by AMuS from team engineers. As the single most reliable outlet in F1, I'd think twice before dismissing or questioning what they are reporting.

From running Russell's power unit to failure in Austria to running Bottas with more components, Merc are testing their reliability for both this season and next season:
"We changed our engines not to add to our pool, but to understand the performance of our power unit. We have to solve all the glitches not only for this year's block but also for the next one. We are thinking about how we will continue the season."
https://f1i.autojournal.fr/magazine/mag ... t-lavenir/

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SiLo
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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b2bL44 wrote:
Wed Sep 29, 2021 7:31 am
dans79 wrote:
Tue Sep 28, 2021 10:23 pm
zibby43 wrote:
Tue Sep 28, 2021 10:02 pm
Which part seemed off to you?
The way it flows.

it starts off with a conversation with toto. It then jumps to someone random opinion about what Lewis and Vettel stopping in Zandvoort means (even though we haven't heard anything about root cause ). Then it jumps to saying that per unnamed sources Vettel & Stroll, and Norris and Ricciardo will all have to take penalties. Then it alludes hamilton will need to as well.

I just find it questiable/convenient that the claim is ever Merc powered car besides Russell will need a need a 4th PU.



Just a few days ago Toto said this.
https://www.gpblog.com/en/news/94820/me ... ngine.html
All the teams are having a hard time getting through the season in terms of engines," Wolff told Speedweek.com. "It's not just about durability, but also the extent to which an engine loses power over the course of its life. A dropout while your rival is winning means you need at least four good races to make up for that.
We are keeping a close eye on how the engines are performing in terms of stability, at the moment we don't see any difficulties. But we are looking at it from weekend to weekend. We don't want to rush things. It can also happen that you get involved in an incident during a weekend and have to start from the back anyway. That would then be the ideal moment to replace the engine,
Yours is an opinion, Michal Schmidt is reporting information gathered by AMuS from team engineers. As the single most reliable outlet in F1, I'd think twice before dismissing or questioning what they are reporting.

From running Russell's power unit to failure in Austria to running Bottas with more components, Merc are testing their reliability for both this season and next season:
"We changed our engines not to add to our pool, but to understand the performance of our power unit. We have to solve all the glitches not only for this year's block but also for the next one. We are thinking about how we will continue the season."
https://f1i.autojournal.fr/magazine/mag ... t-lavenir/
This tells me that they may have taken an engine change early to get at the engine sooner for research purposes as it aligns with their R&D. Don't forget, we have more races next season again.

Not everything is about the current season with Merc, we have seen that before.
Felipe Baby!

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El Scorchio
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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Here's one. Will Mercedes know in advance or have warning (as supplier) if and when the McLarens and AMs make any prospective engine changes? If they do, and it's at the same race, maybe that's the optimal time for Hamilton to do so, if he needs one. Then he's probably guaranteed starting 16th at worst, albeit right in the dangerous part of the pack.

dans79
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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b2bL44 wrote:
Wed Sep 29, 2021 7:31 am
Yours is an opinion, Michal Schmidt is reporting information gathered by AMuS from team engineers.
Personally, I trust a verifiable quote from the team principle more than I do an unverifable one from an unknown team member.
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