2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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El Scorchio
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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I find that a touch hard to believe, but you never know

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dans79
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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El Scorchio wrote:
Thu Oct 14, 2021 6:35 pm
I find that a touch hard to believe, but you never know
You aren't the only one.

If it was truly that bad merc would have taken a new component of every type in Istanbul!
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Gillian
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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dans79 wrote:
Thu Oct 14, 2021 6:46 pm
El Scorchio wrote:
Thu Oct 14, 2021 6:35 pm
I find that a touch hard to believe, but you never know
You aren't the only one.

If it was truly that bad merc would have taken a new component of every type in Istanbul!
That's what I was thinking too.

zibby43
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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Well, not a single one of the Merc factory team PUs has gone 7 races this season. Something to keep in mind.


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dans79
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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zibby43 wrote:
Thu Oct 14, 2021 7:39 pm
Well, not a single one of the Merc factory team PUs has gone 7 races this season. Something to keep in mind.

https://twitter.com/vetteleclerc/status ... 87627?s=21
True, but you also have to consider that the first engine has to do FP1, FP2, FP3, qualifying and the race. The second engines does fewer free practice sessions, and it would not surprise me to learn that the 3rd+ engine is only used for qualifying and the race.

additionally we haven't heard anything official about the status of Lewis's engine from Zandvoort. All we've heard are rumors and opinions!
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PlatinumZealot
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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NL_Fer wrote:
Wed Oct 13, 2021 9:50 pm
RZS10 wrote:
Tue Oct 12, 2021 3:32 pm
To see his perspective one has to look at his laptimes, he wasn't losing any pace in the entire second half of that stint until they pitted him, so he probably felt confident that he could keep it up. Ocon was dropping off at that time already. [source]
I watched a replay of the laptiming and there was never a drop in laptime, right until the last sectors, before the his stop. Also the others (VER, BOT, PER) never experienced graining and a dip in performance on the new inters, after they fitted them. Probably, because the track was still wetter than. There was even some light rain after those pitstops, around lap 45. And even LeClerc started to drop after 3 laps on his new inters.

So indeed, there was never any indication for performance drop on old inters, nor did the other drivers experience a dip on the new inters. The team never new, that new inters would grain and dip, if fitted that late in the race, with a drying track. So they never insisted on Hamilton to pit together with the others and he felt the car was drivable and as fast as the others on new inters.

So the idea, that stopping around lap 40-45 was the best strategy, is just with the hindsight knowledge. The nobody --- up, it just didn’t work out as they wanted. Than at last took the save option.
They drove to prevent graining that is why they were the same pace as Lewis in the initial laps. When Lewis emerged after the late stop he had to push to stop Gasly and thus grained his tyres. Same happened to Daniel.
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PlatinumZealot
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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dans79 wrote:
Thu Oct 14, 2021 7:52 pm
zibby43 wrote:
Thu Oct 14, 2021 7:39 pm
Well, not a single one of the Merc factory team PUs has gone 7 races this season. Something to keep in mind.

https://twitter.com/vetteleclerc/status ... 87627?s=21
True, but you also have to consider that the first engine has to do FP1, FP2, FP3, qualifying and the race. The second engines does fewer free practice sessions, and it would not surprise me to learn that the 3rd+ engine is only used for qualifying and the race.

additionally we haven't heard anything official about the status of Lewis's engine from Zandvoort. All we've heard are rumors and opinions!
True. But whatever the position is. It is a better position than RedBull since the new Merc engine change came at fully wet race.
There spiraling rumours that Mercedes has Gremlins but it's only sandbagging by Toto in my opinion. How can he argue that he could have done the rest of the season on the 3rd engine, then he change his mind and then now again he says he doesn't know if their might be a fifth! one? Mind games.
Now Horner is doing the same thing saying he wont rule out a fifh.

I will take this engine situation as I see it race to race.
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zibby43
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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dans79 wrote:
Thu Oct 14, 2021 7:52 pm
zibby43 wrote:
Thu Oct 14, 2021 7:39 pm
Well, not a single one of the Merc factory team PUs has gone 7 races this season. Something to keep in mind.

https://twitter.com/vetteleclerc/status ... 87627?s=21
True, but you also have to consider that the first engine has to do FP1, FP2, FP3, qualifying and the race. The second engines does fewer free practice sessions, and it would not surprise me to learn that the 3rd+ engine is only used for qualifying and the race.

additionally we haven't heard anything official about the status of Lewis's engine from Zandvoort. All we've heard are rumors and opinions!
All very good points. I think a 5th is only in play if they get some kind of slam dunk opportunity to capitalize upon being overly cautious.

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RZS10
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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El Scorchio wrote:
Thu Oct 14, 2021 12:30 pm
I haven't watched the Palmer analysis, but on the face of it I can't understand why he thinks there would only be an outside chance of finishing higher than fifth if he mirrored Perez. Race pace, hindsight and common sense suggests otherwise.
The bold part was with staying out, otherwise he believes he could have fought it out with Perez for 3rd.

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b2bL44
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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El Scorchio wrote:
Thu Oct 14, 2021 6:35 pm
I find that a touch hard to believe, but you never know
Just because it's bad news for Merc/Lewis or not what we want to hear, doesn't mean it's hard to believe.

AMuS are, and always have been, the most reliable source of information from the paddock. Reliability concerns have been a talking point since Austria when Russell's power unit went pop. These concerns were further elevated after Lewis lost his power unit in Zandvoort. Still people didn't want to believe that he would have to take a fourth ICE/set of components.

The information shouldn't be dismissed just because it tastes bitter.

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El Scorchio
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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b2bL44 wrote:
Fri Oct 15, 2021 1:27 am
El Scorchio wrote:
Thu Oct 14, 2021 6:35 pm
I find that a touch hard to believe, but you never know
Just because it's bad news for Merc/Lewis or not what we want to hear, doesn't mean it's hard to believe.

AMuS are, and always have been, the most reliable source of information from the paddock. Reliability concerns have been a talking point since Austria when Russell's power unit went pop. These concerns were further elevated after Lewis lost his power unit in Zandvoort. Still people didn't want to believe that he would have to take a fourth ICE/set of components.

The information shouldn't be dismissed just because it tastes bitter.
I wouldn't just dismiss it because it's potentially bad news for Mercedes, but I think it's partly because he only took an ICE rather than a whole set of components (as Dans said) If they do have concerns then I'd have thought they'd take the opportunity to get as many as they could at once.

However if it's literally just the ICE they have problems with (which again is slightly bizarre considering it's been by far the most reliable unit in the last few years) then perhaps they thought 2x10 place penalties is the least damaging way to go? Risky not to replace anything else, which seems uncharacteristic.

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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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"A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool."~William Shakespeare

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adrianjordan
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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Just a thought, but we've heard numerous sources talk about the drop off in performance of the PU as it gets more miles on it. Perhaps what they mean is not that the PU couldn't physically manage to do all the remaining races, but rather that the performance drop off would be more than they can accept and, as a result, they would have to push it harder which then in turn could lead to failures.

It's not exactly a stretch to think that Williams, who suffered the first PU failure of the Merc teams IIRC, are running the PU as hard as possible to compensate for chassis and aero weaknesses in their car.
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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CjC
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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ScottR267 wrote:
Sat Oct 16, 2021 9:24 pm
If I’m not mistaken, Petronas haven’t renewed their MotoGP teams sponsorship to run the satellite Yamaha. Would this suggest they are pulling out of F1 too?
Just a fan's point of view