2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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dans79
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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I just rewatched the entire race from the perspective of Lewis's onboard, and it was like he was out for a Sunday drive.

Bono calmly feed him gap and lap time information on Max, and even reminded him to drink! Even the discussion about Botts's puncture was a fairly calm conversation!

The team is hiding information though, as Bono asked Lewis a few questions but asked him to respond via the wheel/dash!
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Marty_Y
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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dans79 wrote:
Mon Nov 22, 2021 11:55 pm
I just rewatched the entire race from the perspective of Lewis's onboard, and it was like he was out for a Sunday drive.

Bono calmly feed him gap and lap time information on Max, and even reminded him to drink! Even the discussion about Botts's puncture was a fairly calm conversation!

The team is hiding information though, as Bono asked Lewis a few questions but asked him to respond via the wheel/dash!
Interesting, do you think that they didn't want the answers broadcasted because it could give away their strategy for the race or were the questions about something else?

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El Scorchio
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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Marty_Y wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 12:04 am
dans79 wrote:
Mon Nov 22, 2021 11:55 pm
I just rewatched the entire race from the perspective of Lewis's onboard, and it was like he was out for a Sunday drive.

Bono calmly feed him gap and lap time information on Max, and even reminded him to drink! Even the discussion about Botts's puncture was a fairly calm conversation!

The team is hiding information though, as Bono asked Lewis a few questions but asked him to respond via the wheel/dash!
Interesting, do you think that they didn't want the answers broadcasted because it could give away their strategy for the race or were the questions about something else?
Definitely. They all talk and deal in code all the time because they know all the other teams are listening. (But we all know that anyway don’t we) When it’s something really sensitive it’s communicated silently through button presses.

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dans79
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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Yeah, both times it was about the tires.
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Marty_Y
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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dans79 wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 1:27 am
Yeah, both times it was about the tires.
During the Brazilian gp (Sao Paulo Grand Prix) when it was coming up to the second pit stop Bono asked Lewis which compound he'd prefer and Lewis replied that he wasn't going to say over the radio, that he would select it with the wheel.

When he came out of the pits Lewis asked them to confirm which tyres they had put on, when they replied Lewis said that's not what I asked for, Bono said that they'd noticed too much deg to go for what Lewis wanted.

As said there is loads of bluffing, use of codes, silent communication and other things going on over the radio because they're aware that the competition is listening.

KeiKo403
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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Marty_Y wrote:
Mon Nov 22, 2021 8:36 pm
dans79 wrote:
Mon Nov 22, 2021 8:28 pm
Marty_Y wrote:
Mon Nov 22, 2021 8:25 pm
I know what you mean, I think it's just his Austrian accent.

The spicy reference is probably because he means the Brazil engine has something a bit extra or a bit hot, as opposed to the normal plain engine.

Maybe this is because historically spices had to be imported by sailing them half way round the world, so they were very expensive and not cheaply available to average people. So something spicy was something that was special and not bland or plain.

Spikey or spiky in English slang sometimes is used to describe a person,
British, informal : tending to become angry or annoyed easily. He has a spiky personality.
I was thinking it was just a well disguised swipe at Horner. Let's not forget who he is married to, a spice girl (aka Ginger Spice)!
LOL, that never crossed my mind.
And this is why I like to refer to him as ‘Whinger Spice’ :D

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AeroDynamic
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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dans79 wrote:
Mon Nov 22, 2021 11:55 pm
I just rewatched the entire race from the perspective of Lewis's onboard, and it was like he was out for a Sunday drive.

Bono calmly feed him gap and lap time information on Max, and even reminded him to drink! Even the discussion about Botts's puncture was a fairly calm conversation!

The team is hiding information though, as Bono asked Lewis a few questions but asked him to respond via the wheel/dash!
How much kerb was he using on most of his laps, and the early ones when he was pushing to maintain gap? I don't have f1tv so I can't compare his race to versatppens onboards. But my feeling is Verstappen used a lot more of the track / kerbs, hence damaged wing and fast lap. would like to know if my feeling is right or not =P~
’cause
When we rhyme–we shine,
showing no weak signs
Each time you peep,
rewind these deep lines
I know I’m,
in a zone of my own kind
so I just get down,
and I go for mines.

Just_a_fan
Just_a_fan
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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El Scorchio wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 12:51 am
Marty_Y wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 12:04 am
dans79 wrote:
Mon Nov 22, 2021 11:55 pm
I just rewatched the entire race from the perspective of Lewis's onboard, and it was like he was out for a Sunday drive.

Bono calmly feed him gap and lap time information on Max, and even reminded him to drink! Even the discussion about Botts's puncture was a fairly calm conversation!

The team is hiding information though, as Bono asked Lewis a few questions but asked him to respond via the wheel/dash!
Interesting, do you think that they didn't want the answers broadcasted because it could give away their strategy for the race or were the questions about something else?
Definitely. They all talk and deal in code all the time because they know all the other teams are listening. (But we all know that anyway don’t we) When it’s something really sensitive it’s communicated silently through button presses.
Exactly. Lewis is often insulted by people who complain that he says "my tyres are shot" and then goes on to take the fastest lap. Likewise, he'll say "my tyres are fine" and then they pit a lap or two later. Other times he'll say the same things and they'll do something else. The important race information will be sent via non-verbal methods back to Bono. Obviously, any info Bono passes to him has to be by radio as the pits can't send info to the car any other way.

I remember back in the Vettel days, Red Bull had a specific tyre rotary on the steering wheel so that the drivers could tell the team how good the tyres were without using the radio.
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

Tvetovnato
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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AeroDynamic wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 9:43 am
dans79 wrote:
Mon Nov 22, 2021 11:55 pm
I just rewatched the entire race from the perspective of Lewis's onboard, and it was like he was out for a Sunday drive.

Bono calmly feed him gap and lap time information on Max, and even reminded him to drink! Even the discussion about Botts's puncture was a fairly calm conversation!

The team is hiding information though, as Bono asked Lewis a few questions but asked him to respond via the wheel/dash!
How much kerb was he using on most of his laps, and the early ones when he was pushing to maintain gap? I don't have f1tv so I can't compare his race to versatppens onboards. But my feeling is Verstappen used a lot more of the track / kerbs, hence damaged wing and fast lap. would like to know if my feeling is right or not =P~
Never more than the red white kerbs (except turn one and two but the green part was safe there). Even when he started to push when Verstappen was second, he still kept it within the red white, unlike most others. That’s why he felt safe regarding the risk of punctures too.

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SiLo
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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Comparison of top speeds for you guys to check out:

LOSAIL
Image

BRAZIL
Image
Felipe Baby!

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dans79
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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AeroDynamic wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 9:43 am
How much kerb was he using on most of his laps, and the early ones when he was pushing to maintain gap? I don't have f1tv so I can't compare his race to versatppens onboards. But my feeling is Verstappen used a lot more of the track / kerbs, hence damaged wing and fast lap. would like to know if my feeling is right or not =P~
I just rewatched most of the first stint for Lewis and Max! Max was using the green and white curbs a lot more often and a lot harder than Lewis. Max was regularly getting up onto the exit curbs of turn 6, 10,14 and 15. Lewis was getting on them here and there, but he generally only went about half way up them.

The only Curb Lewis got up on top of a a few times was the exit curb of turn 15. Max has a rough ride on the exit curbs of turn 10 and 14 a few times!
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SiLo
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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Just_a_fan wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 4:36 pm
SiLo wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 4:20 pm
Comparison of top speeds for you guys to check out:

LOSAIL
https://preview.redd.it/e7wu6kz0vb181.p ... 0a557a4244

BRAZIL
https://preview.redd.it/3gp3ekb2qyz71.p ... f22b3abc4e
I'd reply as I did in the Red Bull thread but no doubt aral will be along in a minute to delete your post and mine just as he did there.

Can't let technical discussions with facts get in the way of fan rants. :wink:
I think the data is highly relevant to a lot of the discussion in both threads. I don't know why it was deleted.
Felipe Baby!

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AeroDynamic
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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dans79 wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 4:34 pm
AeroDynamic wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 9:43 am
How much kerb was he using on most of his laps, and the early ones when he was pushing to maintain gap? I don't have f1tv so I can't compare his race to versatppens onboards. But my feeling is Verstappen used a lot more of the track / kerbs, hence damaged wing and fast lap. would like to know if my feeling is right or not =P~
I just rewatched most of the first stint for Lewis and Max! Max was using the green and white curbs a lot more often and a lot harder than Lewis. Max was regularly getting up onto the exit curbs of turn 6, 10,14 and 15. Lewis was getting on them here and there, but he generally only went about half way up them.

The only Curb Lewis got up on top of a a few times was the exit curb of turn 15. Max has a rough ride on the exit curbs of turn 10 and 14 a few times!
I thought so. no way was the qualifying level of pace gone between them. I was discussing this in another thread with another user, it appears my gut feeling was about right. Max said in the PR presss conference that he thinks he picked up the damage on 14, 15 or 16 by running wide trying to follow.

Thanks Dans
’cause
When we rhyme–we shine,
showing no weak signs
Each time you peep,
rewind these deep lines
I know I’m,
in a zone of my own kind
so I just get down,
and I go for mines.

zibby43
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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Hamilton opens up on how the W12 is the “monster diva” - worse than the original 2017 diva. The 2021 regs ruined the car, essentially. But, the team might have unlocked the car’s Silverstone upgrade via a fundamental setup re-think in Brazil.

A must-read. Here’s an excerpt:

“Definitely, [it spoilt that]. We knew we were going to lose all this downforce and once we found how much downforce we lost, the whole characteristics of the car shifted so what we had worked on for several years, getting the car into that sweet spot like last year, it’s been a nightmare to undo by playing with the tools when you can’t actually change any of the tools and it just is what it is and trying to find smart ways to work around less downforce.

“There have been a lot of elements that have made it harder than ever. It’s been the hardest car to set up and I’ve done a lot of sim testing but even sim days, you go and do a sim day and the sim is not in the right place it’s supposed to be – the grip level’s not right or the wind effect is not right or the thermal deg is set wrong so you can come away with bogus numbers and you have to be so careful with the data that you are receiving and the decisions that you’re making. It’s been a rollercoaster ride.”

“The car has been very, very hard to set up. Toto [Wolff] said one of our cars was a diva but this one is a monster of a diva.”

“Plus we’ve had less practice time, so it’s been harder to get the car in the right window. And so therefore, when you don’t get the car in the right window, you just limit your potential. So I’m just not able to maximise my ability through the set-up not being in the right place, and it’s been very, very hard to get it into the right place.”

“[In Brazil] I got the car exactly where I wanted. And that was like literally hitting the nail on the head. But that’s like maybe once or twice we’ve done that this year. I’d say in Brazil we maybe operated in that optimum, but most of the time we’re not optimising it.”

“So you look deeper into the detail to try and find any performance that’s left over. So if, for example, the bodywork is slightly too open for cooling and you’re leaving 30 milliseconds of performance on the table, you chase it more than you’ve ever done before. You’re really hard on the guys: ‘Close the damn car up.’

“Or it could be heating from the front discs, or tyre pressures, gear ratios. When you’re shifting the gears, or the revs bog when you do the launch. The fuel target: making sure that you’re not finishing the race with four kilos of fuel and leaving a second of race time or whatever it is on the plate.

“So those are things that I’ve been applying more energy towards and being a lot harder with the team on. Because we need every millisecond we can get, particularly at the places where we have been really quite a bit down. Just going into more detail everywhere… I would say I’ve been more committed than I’ve ever been.”
https://the-race.com/formula-1/hamilton ... diva-merc/

Just_a_fan
Just_a_fan
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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I found this interesting:
The responsibility to those around him weighs more heavily upon him than it seems to with Verstappen. Whether that’s just a difference in maturity, background, experiences or nature, who’s to say, but it’s there.

“I am not too big or too successful to have to back out to fight another day. I know that is sometimes the route you have to take; you have to be the smarter one.

“And sometimes you lose points in doing that, for sure, but it’s not just about me. I have 2000 people behind me and through that selfish position I could make – ‘No, I’m going to hold my ground’ and don’t finish – that cost all my team potential bonuses at the end of the year, all the hard work they have to do, the damage of the car.”
That's being a team leader. I'm going to go out on a limb and say I don't think Max thinks this way at this point in his career just as I'm sure Hamilton didn't when he was a "young gun".
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"