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Can anyone see what I see..?
I see, admittedly basic but very sophisticated F-Duct technology at work on the merc rear wing. Isn’t that why DRS came about? Banned, I think it was!
I wonder what Mr. Newey might think of it? You know, if he had a walk over to the merc car, Monaco, and good look at it, that is!
Reason I mention it is because jet engines are susceptible to being extinguished by airstream; if said airstream isn’t slowed down. I think it’s managed by use of lips, louvres and cones are used on the SR71 for that very purpose. The merc rear wing has a lip all the way along the bottom of the DRS flap. That in itself will create a bow wave and bow waves slow air down to sluggish speeds and I’m thinking anything behind it would/might/could be termed as F-Duct technology directly aft of the DRS flap, that is.
Just a thought!
Can anyone see what I see..?
I see, admittedly basic but very sophisticated F-Duct technology at work on the merc rear wing. Isn’t that why DRS came about? Banned, I think it was!
I wonder what Mr. Newey might think of it? You know, if he had a walk over to the merc car, Monaco, and good look at it, that is!
Reason I mention it is because jet engines are susceptible to being extinguished by airstream; if said airstream isn’t slowed down. I think it’s managed by use of lips, louvres and cones are used on the SR71 for that very purpose. The merc rear wing has a lip all the way along the bottom of the DRS flap. That in itself will create a bow wave and bow waves slow air down to sluggish speeds and I’m thinking anything behind it would/might/could be termed as F-Duct technology directly aft of the DRS flap, that is.
Just a thought!
Well if you can see it, then I'm sure Mr. Newey and everyone else that matters in the sport can also already see it.
Can anyone see what I see..?
I see, admittedly basic but very sophisticated F-Duct technology at work on the merc rear wing. Isn’t that why DRS came about? Banned, I think it was!
I wonder what Mr. Newey might think of it? You know, if he had a walk over to the merc car, Monaco, and good look at it, that is!
Reason I mention it is because jet engines are susceptible to being extinguished by airstream; if said airstream isn’t slowed down. I think it’s managed by use of lips, louvres and cones are used on the SR71 for that very purpose. The merc rear wing has a lip all the way along the bottom of the DRS flap. That in itself will create a bow wave and bow waves slow air down to sluggish speeds and I’m thinking anything behind it would/might/could be termed as F-Duct technology directly aft of the DRS flap, that is.
Just a thought!
Well if you can see it, then I'm sure Mr. Newey and everyone else that matters in the sport can also already see it.
Exactly so El Scorchio, but were those people switched on when they looked at it? It’s a very basic rendering of F-Duct admittedly but merc are quibbling about tenths aren’t they!
Can anyone see what I see..?
I see, admittedly basic but very sophisticated F-Duct technology at work on the merc rear wing. Isn’t that why DRS came about? Banned, I think it was!
I wonder what Mr. Newey might think of it? You know, if he had a walk over to the merc car, Monaco, and good look at it, that is!
Reason I mention it is because jet engines are susceptible to being extinguished by airstream; if said airstream isn’t slowed down. I think it’s managed by use of lips, louvres and cones are used on the SR71 for that very purpose. The merc rear wing has a lip all the way along the bottom of the DRS flap. That in itself will create a bow wave and bow waves slow air down to sluggish speeds and I’m thinking anything behind it would/might/could be termed as F-Duct technology directly aft of the DRS flap, that is.
Just a thought!
Well if you can see it, then I'm sure Mr. Newey and everyone else that matters in the sport can also already see it.
Exactly so El Scorchio, but were those people switched on when they looked at it? It’s a very basic rendering of F-Duct admittedly but merc are quibbling about tenths aren’t they!
Who knows! I'm sure if they think anything is amiss with the Merc wing they'll query it, as they rightly should! (Or maybe choose not to query it, but just do it themselves too.)
When rules are changed without prior investigation, mid-season, 3 days after a mercedes employee (LH in this case) asks for such change, nothing but lap dog comes to mind.
There is NO rule in harm atm. All wings pass FIA-mandated tests, do you agree or not?
So, this change is only because maybe, MAYBE(!), this can help Mercedes to win again and cement LH as GOAT, not simply equal to MS.
I think you misunderstand, there are no rules being changed. There are additional tests that are going to be made. Those additional tests are already allowed in the current rules.
I've bolded it and made it bigger...
In order to ensure that the requirements of Article 3.8 are respected, the FIA reserves the
right to introduce further load/deflection tests on any part of the bodywork which appears to
be (or is suspected of), moving whilst the car is in motion.
So, there you said it and that is exactly the problem from which everyone seems to look away.
“Any part of the bodywork”....
Now look at the video below and see the front wing of the Mercedes bend like anything else, ok it’s a 2020 video but I’m pretty sure this years wing is the same.
Why would that front wing be allowed if the rear wing bending of the Red Bull is against “the spirit of the rules”.
I think you misunderstand, there are no rules being changed. There are additional tests that are going to be made. Those additional tests are already allowed in the current rules.
I've bolded it and made it bigger...
In order to ensure that the requirements of Article 3.8 are respected, the FIA reserves the
right to introduce further load/deflection tests on any part of the bodywork which appears to
be (or is suspected of), moving whilst the car is in motion.
So, there you said it and that is exactly the problem from which everyone seems to look away.
“Any part of the bodywork”....
Now look at the video below and see the front wing of the Mercedes bend like anything else, ok it’s a 2020 video but I’m pretty sure this years wing is the same.
Why would that front wing be allowed if the rear wing bending of the Red Bull is against “the spirit of the rules”.
Every front wing will have the elements bending downwards in the grid... The reason why no one will protest this (Red Bull included) is because theirs does the same thing.
The elements in the front wing are bound to flex because they have fix point on the end plate and then they are fixed among themselves... On the Y250 area they don’t don’t have a fix point.
The flexing rules for front wings is aimed at the main plane, not the elements.
So, there you said it and that is exactly the problem from which everyone seems to look away.
“Any part of the bodywork”....
Now look at the video below and see the front wing of the Mercedes bend like anything else, ok it’s a 2020 video but I’m pretty sure this years wing is the same.
Why would that front wing be allowed if the rear wing bending of the Red Bull is against “the spirit of the rules”.
Every front wing will have the elements bending downwards in the grid... The reason why no one will protest this (Red Bull included) is because theirs does the same thing.
The elements in the front wing are bound to flex because they have fix point on the end plate and then they are fixed among themselves... On the Y250 area they don’t don’t have a fix point.
The flexing rules for front wings is aimed at the main plane, not the elements.
Now look at the video below and see the front wing of the Mercedes bend like anything else, ok it’s a 2020 video but I’m pretty sure this years wing is the same.
Why would that front wing be allowed if the rear wing bending of the Red Bull is against “the spirit of the rules”.
It is the same thing, but like with the rear wing it depends on what the FIA thinks, is acceptable, and what is to much.
Here is a video from Max's front wing camera in Portugal, look at the position of the flaps right before the breaking zone for turn 1 and at the apex of turn 3, and you will se a lot of movement. (ignore the name of the video)
If memory serves the fia cares more about the main plane than they do the flaps.
hape wrote:
So, there you said it and that is exactly the problem from which everyone seems to look away.
“Any part of the bodywork”....
Now look at the video below and see the front wing of the Mercedes bend like anything else, ok it’s a 2020 video but I’m pretty sure this years wing is the same.
Why would that front wing be allowed if the rear wing bending of the Red Bull is against “the spirit of the rules”.
Every front wing will have the elements bending downwards in the grid... The reason why no one will protest this (Red Bull included) is because theirs does the same thing.
The elements in the front wing are bound to flex because they have fix point on the end plate and then they are fixed among themselves... On the Y250 area they don’t don’t have a fix point.
The flexing rules for front wings is aimed at the main plane, not the elements.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Got a source for this? Genuinely interested.
The rules in regard to testing for the front wing:
3.9.1 Bodywork may deflect no more than 15mm vertically when a 1000N load is applied vertically to it at points 700mm and 1000mm forward of the front wheel centre line and 895mm from the car centre plane. The load will be applied symmetrically to both sides of the car, and in a downward direction using a 50mm diameter ram on a rectangular adapter measuring 400mm x 150mm. This adapter must be supplied by the team and:
a. Have a flat top surface without recesses.
b. Be fitted to the car so as to apply the full load to the bodywork at the test point and not to increase the rigidity of the parts being tested.
c. Be placed with the inner 400mm edge parallel to the car centre plane and displaced from it by 820mm.
d. Be placed with its forward edge 1050mm forward of the front wheel centre line.
The deflection will be measured along the loading axis at the bottom of the bodywork at this point and relative to the reference plane.
The same test described in the present Article will be also applied asymmetrically (i.e. on the one side of the car only), and in this case the bodywork may not deflect more than 20mm.
If it’s at 700mm and 1000mm from the front wheel center line and 895mm from the center plane, you would be testing the front wing near the end plates... Therefore not measuring the deformation of the front wing elements. (At 895mm from the center plane, you are close to the point where the elements are fixed to the end plate)
I hope it gets banned and Red Bull fined and their points taken away.
They are F1's worst hypocrites.
If you wish all that to RBR, then you wish it Alpine and Alfa Romeo too, because they have exactly the same movement / flex.
So F1's worst hypocrites the three of them?
I'd wait and see if anything is going to change with these three teams before making such allegations.
Only when it has been proven you should make such statements, which I find quite rude, but that's just my opinion.
So, there you said it and that is exactly the problem from which everyone seems to look away.
“Any part of the bodywork”....
Now look at the video below and see the front wing of the Mercedes bend like anything else, ok it’s a 2020 video but I’m pretty sure this years wing is the same.
Why would that front wing be allowed if the rear wing bending of the Red Bull is against “the spirit of the rules”.
Every front wing will have the elements bending downwards in the grid... The reason why no one will protest this (Red Bull included) is because theirs does the same thing.
The elements in the front wing are bound to flex because they have fix point on the end plate and then they are fixed among themselves... On the Y250 area they don’t don’t have a fix point.
The flexing rules for front wings is aimed at the main plane, not the elements.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
The point I meant is:
“ on any part of the bodywork which appears to be (or is suspected of), moving whilst the car is in motion.”
So “Every front wing will have the elements bending downwards in the grid... The reason why no one will protest this (Red Bull included) is because theirs does the same thing.” doesn’t allow for this to happen.
If you make clear rules you can not apply them randomly or you will create a mess.
When Verstappen undercut Hamilton, he had built up a 4 second lead, and he took his foot off the gas. He should have pushed with all his might, and gone for a two stop, second stop on hards. Had he pushed, he would have had at least a 5 and a half second buffer before Hamilton would begin eating into it. Push like mad until the gap is closing down to 3 seconds(to account for traffic), dive in the pits for Hards. Push like mad until the end, Hamilton would have pitted again, or tried to do the one stop. On mediums he would have struggled just as much as Verstappen maybe a lap or two later.
The only question mark would be Bottas, and it would not have worked out if they tried to use him. Verstappen would pass with much fresher tires, or Bottas would win eating into Hamilton's lead, as Verstappen would still come second. Or they both try the one stop and Verstappen passes them BOTH ON TRACK.
It's not over, Verstappen has the pace, he has the TEAM, it's just a matter of self belief, Brazil 2019 and Silverstone 2020 and Abu Dhabi 2020 weren't flukes. He can still win!
The bodywork discussion is boring, even if I'm wrong, fine I'll admit it, the collective consciousness of the forum is always right. Regardless none of that matters, we aren't in charge of the legality of the RBR, the FIA is. The chips will fall where they will.
hape wrote:
So, there you said it and that is exactly the problem from which everyone seems to look away.
“Any part of the bodywork”....
Now look at the video below and see the front wing of the Mercedes bend like anything else, ok it’s a 2020 video but I’m pretty sure this years wing is the same.
Why would that front wing be allowed if the rear wing bending of the Red Bull is against “the spirit of the rules”.
Every front wing will have the elements bending downwards in the grid... The reason why no one will protest this (Red Bull included) is because theirs does the same thing.
The elements in the front wing are bound to flex because they have fix point on the end plate and then they are fixed among themselves... On the Y250 area they don’t don’t have a fix point.
The flexing rules for front wings is aimed at the main plane, not the elements.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
The point I meant is:
“ on any part of the bodywork which appears to be (or is suspected of), moving whilst the car is in motion.”
So “Every front wing will have the elements bending downwards in the grid... The reason why no one will protest this (Red Bull included) is because theirs does the same thing.” doesn’t allow for this to happen.
If you make clear rules you can not apply them randomly or you will create a mess.
Not disagreeing that the rules should be more clear in some regards, at the same time I can understand why for example the rule isn’t enforced on the elements of the front wing.
Luckily, some of this loops will disappear next year since for example there won’t be a Y250 and the elements will have 2 fix points in the nose and the end plates
When Verstappen undercut Hamilton, he had built up a 4 second lead, and he took his foot off the gas. He should have pushed with all his might, and gone for a two stop, second stop on hards. Had he pushed, he would have had at least a 5 and a half second buffer before Hamilton would begin eating into it. Push like mad until the gap is closing down to 3 seconds(to account for traffic), dive in the pits for Hards. Push like mad until the end, Hamilton would have pitted again, or tried to do the one stop. On mediums he would have struggled just as much as Verstappen maybe a lap or two later.
The only question mark would be Bottas, and it would not have worked out if they tried to use him. Verstappen would pass with much fresher tires, or Bottas would win eating into Hamilton's lead, as Verstappen would still come second. Or they both try the one stop and Verstappen passes them BOTH ON TRACK.
It's not over, Verstappen has the pace, he has the TEAM, it's just a matter of self belief, Brazil 2019 and Silverstone 2020 and Abu Dhabi 2020 weren't flukes. He can still win!
The bodywork discussion is boring, even if I'm wrong, fine I'll admit it, the collective consciousness of the forum is always right. Regardless none of that matters, we aren't in charge of the legality of the RBR, the FIA is. The chips will fall where they will.
That wouldn't of worked, ignoring the fact that he was "pushing like mad" and he still had Lewis stuck on his gearbox.
The hards were significantly slower that's why nobody used them, if he pitted for a second time and put hard tyres on Lewis would have done the same and put mediums on and had a significant pace advantage. They also could have split the strategy with Bottas free to try something different.
