2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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langedweil
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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adrianjordan wrote:
Fri Jul 30, 2021 12:21 am
LaplacesDemon wrote:
Fri Jul 30, 2021 12:19 am
I was considering that perhaps RBR are going to these lengths to somehow unsettle Merc and force them to spend resources towards mounting a defence.

It now appears that RB are the ones who have put significant effort behind their appeal only for it to be categorically dismissed.

I'm quite disappointed as I was expecting most of the appeal discussions to revolve around the more technical aspects of the wheel to wheel battle, some of which I was hoping would transpire into the FIA statement.
Instead it would appear that the focus was on some made up data and some yet to be disclosed mud slinging tripe.

As a side note, I think it is hilarious how fans of RB and Merc keep attacking Toto and Christian respectively without realizing that the two are actually very much alike.
The big difference is in delivery. Toto remains outwardly calm and collected, Christian comes across as on edge and moaning.
Time will tell when/if Toto starts losing out continuously ...
HuggaWugga !

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godlameroso
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Joined: Sat Jan 16, 2010 8:27 pm
Location: Miami FL

Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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langedweil wrote:
Fri Jul 30, 2021 2:50 am
adrianjordan wrote:
Fri Jul 30, 2021 12:21 am
LaplacesDemon wrote:
Fri Jul 30, 2021 12:19 am
I was considering that perhaps RBR are going to these lengths to somehow unsettle Merc and force them to spend resources towards mounting a defence.

It now appears that RB are the ones who have put significant effort behind their appeal only for it to be categorically dismissed.

I'm quite disappointed as I was expecting most of the appeal discussions to revolve around the more technical aspects of the wheel to wheel battle, some of which I was hoping would transpire into the FIA statement.
Instead it would appear that the focus was on some made up data and some yet to be disclosed mud slinging tripe.

As a side note, I think it is hilarious how fans of RB and Merc keep attacking Toto and Christian respectively without realizing that the two are actually very much alike.
The big difference is in delivery. Toto remains outwardly calm and collected, Christian comes across as on edge and moaning.
Time will tell when/if Toto starts losing out continuously ...
It depends on how one deals with things. A person can remain calm when the cameras are on, but behind the scenes the tables start flying. It's an interesting dynamic, do you bottle it up only to unleash it later, or release it all here and now in a seemingly wreckless manner?

You can only bottle things up so long before they come to the surface, and the harder you try to suppress them, the more dramatic it will be when the proverbial lid blows off.

Pressure is pressure, you let it out before it can build up to uncontrollable levels, and you have to sacrifice a little face as a result so be it. It's better than the alternative in the long run.
Saishū kōnā

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langedweil
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Korekto ...
HuggaWugga !

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Chuckjr
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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dans79 wrote:
Fri Jul 30, 2021 1:15 am
Chuckjr wrote:
Fri Jul 30, 2021 1:05 am
Never let a crisis go to waste.

Red Bull was planting seeds at that hearing. They never expected to win anything. Come on. This is chess. They know this isn’t the last time these two boys are going to mingle on track. Red Bull took the opportunity to make some suspicions clear. If I understand correctly, that letter they wrote they knew would not be seen outside the case so they took advantage of the crisis knowing it would all stay private. Some would call it shrewd, others self-indulgent and childish. Either way, public or not, do you think RB care? They are playing out their strategy.

I’d reckon if the roles were reversed many opinions would change regarding the letter based on team/driver preference. But whatever the case, I don’t see it as a mistake at all but simply their way of applying more pressure to an already high pressure situation. Not letting the crisis go away lightly is the point.

We all have opinions as to how certain drivers respond to high pressure and this is simply Red Bull team’s way of continuing to apply pressure as well as officially plant some theoretical seeds should/when this happens again.

All is fair in love and war ladies and gents. Take advantage of every opportunity. Appearances don’t win races, speed and cunning does. This has nothing to do with studious, gentlemanly conduct and everything to do with all out war. Red Bull is making sure everyone knows the gloves are off and they are expecting and ready for any position that should surface. They could care less what people think of their private legal claims and positioning. F1 team principals and high dollar lawyers are not dumb. They know exactly what they are doing and it’s why they have been so successful.
Planting seeds doesn't do you any good, if at the same time you insult or annoy the very people you expect to help you out in the future.
Meh. Not if the seeds are planted by very smart people who understand this better than us, which they are and which they do.

It was a shrewd move and it will pay massive dividends. This has only begun. Watch.

I’ve no idea why people here think this championship is going to be clean and racing will not involve any more major issues. Makes no sense.

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Ryar
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Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2021 4:28 pm

Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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dans79 wrote:
Fri Jul 30, 2021 1:15 am
Chuckjr wrote:
Fri Jul 30, 2021 1:05 am
Never let a crisis go to waste.

Red Bull was planting seeds at that hearing. They never expected to win anything. Come on. This is chess. They know this isn’t the last time these two boys are going to mingle on track. Red Bull took the opportunity to make some suspicions clear. If I understand correctly, that letter they wrote they knew would not be seen outside the case so they took advantage of the crisis knowing it would all stay private. Some would call it shrewd, others self-indulgent and childish. Either way, public or not, do you think RB care? They are playing out their strategy.

I’d reckon if the roles were reversed many opinions would change regarding the letter based on team/driver preference. But whatever the case, I don’t see it as a mistake at all but simply their way of applying more pressure to an already high pressure situation. Not letting the crisis go away lightly is the point.

We all have opinions as to how certain drivers respond to high pressure and this is simply Red Bull team’s way of continuing to apply pressure as well as officially plant some theoretical seeds should/when this happens again.

All is fair in love and war ladies and gents. Take advantage of every opportunity. Appearances don’t win races, speed and cunning does. This has nothing to do with studious, gentlemanly conduct and everything to do with all out war. Red Bull is making sure everyone knows the gloves are off and they are expecting and ready for any position that should surface. They could care less what people think of their private legal claims and positioning. F1 team principals and high dollar lawyers are not dumb. They know exactly what they are doing and it’s why they have been so successful.
Planting seeds doesn't do you any good, if at the same time you insult or annoy the very people you expect to help you out in the future.
Asking for a penalty review, is NOT insulting or annoying people when due process is being followed with full respect to the reviewing authority. Bossing on the race director to read your email in the middle of race or trying to force stewards' hand in the event of your driver's recklessness, is.
Hakuna Matata!

Jolle
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Chuckjr wrote:
Fri Jul 30, 2021 6:46 am
dans79 wrote:
Fri Jul 30, 2021 1:15 am
Chuckjr wrote:
Fri Jul 30, 2021 1:05 am
Never let a crisis go to waste.

Red Bull was planting seeds at that hearing. They never expected to win anything. Come on. This is chess. They know this isn’t the last time these two boys are going to mingle on track. Red Bull took the opportunity to make some suspicions clear. If I understand correctly, that letter they wrote they knew would not be seen outside the case so they took advantage of the crisis knowing it would all stay private. Some would call it shrewd, others self-indulgent and childish. Either way, public or not, do you think RB care? They are playing out their strategy.

I’d reckon if the roles were reversed many opinions would change regarding the letter based on team/driver preference. But whatever the case, I don’t see it as a mistake at all but simply their way of applying more pressure to an already high pressure situation. Not letting the crisis go away lightly is the point.

We all have opinions as to how certain drivers respond to high pressure and this is simply Red Bull team’s way of continuing to apply pressure as well as officially plant some theoretical seeds should/when this happens again.

All is fair in love and war ladies and gents. Take advantage of every opportunity. Appearances don’t win races, speed and cunning does. This has nothing to do with studious, gentlemanly conduct and everything to do with all out war. Red Bull is making sure everyone knows the gloves are off and they are expecting and ready for any position that should surface. They could care less what people think of their private legal claims and positioning. F1 team principals and high dollar lawyers are not dumb. They know exactly what they are doing and it’s why they have been so successful.
Planting seeds doesn't do you any good, if at the same time you insult or annoy the very people you expect to help you out in the future.
Meh. Not if the seeds are planted by very smart people who understand this better than us, which they are and which they do.

It was a shrewd move and it will pay massive dividends. This has only begun. Watch.

I’ve no idea why people here think this championship is going to be clean and racing will not involve any more major issues. Makes no sense.
One would assume so, but the way they are playing this out begs the question what their end game is in this case. The petition was apparently so bad that they not only wiped it off the table using the most basic references to the rules, it also resulted in a concern from the steward about accusations that were out of place. Instead of making a strong case they allowed the opposing party to take the high road and themselves go from being the victim to painted as the agressor.
Plus, with the use of a filming day to produce evidence they took a massive risk that the cost of this could be added to the cost cap.

littlebigcat
littlebigcat
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Joined: Sat May 06, 2017 6:47 pm

Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Chuckjr wrote:
Fri Jul 30, 2021 6:46 am
Meh. Not if the seeds are planted by very smart people who understand this better than us, which they are and which they do.

It was a shrewd move and it will pay massive dividends. This has only begun. Watch.
I think you're making a stretch. Even if Red Bull were looking to have a slight political disadvantage at this race by embarrassing themselves with the stewards, the same stewards will appear at other races too. There is nothing art of war about this situation, if they were really playing 4D chess, they wouldn't have needed Albon to drive the lines, it could have all been done in the simulator.

Just_a_fan
Just_a_fan
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Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2010 7:37 pm

Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Ryar wrote:
Fri Jul 30, 2021 7:24 am
dans79 wrote:
Fri Jul 30, 2021 1:15 am
Chuckjr wrote:
Fri Jul 30, 2021 1:05 am
Never let a crisis go to waste.

Red Bull was planting seeds at that hearing. They never expected to win anything. Come on. This is chess. They know this isn’t the last time these two boys are going to mingle on track. Red Bull took the opportunity to make some suspicions clear. If I understand correctly, that letter they wrote they knew would not be seen outside the case so they took advantage of the crisis knowing it would all stay private. Some would call it shrewd, others self-indulgent and childish. Either way, public or not, do you think RB care? They are playing out their strategy.

I’d reckon if the roles were reversed many opinions would change regarding the letter based on team/driver preference. But whatever the case, I don’t see it as a mistake at all but simply their way of applying more pressure to an already high pressure situation. Not letting the crisis go away lightly is the point.

We all have opinions as to how certain drivers respond to high pressure and this is simply Red Bull team’s way of continuing to apply pressure as well as officially plant some theoretical seeds should/when this happens again.

All is fair in love and war ladies and gents. Take advantage of every opportunity. Appearances don’t win races, speed and cunning does. This has nothing to do with studious, gentlemanly conduct and everything to do with all out war. Red Bull is making sure everyone knows the gloves are off and they are expecting and ready for any position that should surface. They could care less what people think of their private legal claims and positioning. F1 team principals and high dollar lawyers are not dumb. They know exactly what they are doing and it’s why they have been so successful.
Planting seeds doesn't do you any good, if at the same time you insult or annoy the very people you expect to help you out in the future.
Asking for a penalty review, is NOT insulting or annoying people when due process is being followed with full respect to the reviewing authority. Bossing on the race director to read your email in the middle of race or trying to force stewards' hand in the event of your driver's recklessness, is.
It wasn't asking for the review that was insulting. That was all fair and square. It was what they did once they were allowed the review that will have annoyed TPTB. That and apparently insulting another competitor in official documents. That certainly won't endear them to anyone in the club.
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

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SiLo
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Joined: Sun Jul 25, 2010 6:09 pm

Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Just_a_fan wrote:
Fri Jul 30, 2021 9:00 am
Ryar wrote:
Fri Jul 30, 2021 7:24 am
dans79 wrote:
Fri Jul 30, 2021 1:15 am


Planting seeds doesn't do you any good, if at the same time you insult or annoy the very people you expect to help you out in the future.
Asking for a penalty review, is NOT insulting or annoying people when due process is being followed with full respect to the reviewing authority. Bossing on the race director to read your email in the middle of race or trying to force stewards' hand in the event of your driver's recklessness, is.
It wasn't asking for the review that was insulting. That was all fair and square. It was what they did once they were allowed the review that will have annoyed TPTB. That and apparently insulting another competitor in official documents. That certainly won't endear them to anyone in the club.
I was going to say... Incredible lack of sense from Red Bull on that part, and it's gone down like a lead balloon.
Felipe Baby!

Just_a_fan
Just_a_fan
772
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2010 7:37 pm

Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

Post

Chuckjr wrote:
Fri Jul 30, 2021 1:05 am
Never let a crisis go to waste.

Red Bull was planting seeds at that hearing. They never expected to win anything. Come on. This is chess. They know this isn’t the last time these two boys are going to mingle on track. Red Bull took the opportunity to make some suspicions clear. If I understand correctly, that letter they wrote they knew would not be seen outside the case so they took advantage of the crisis knowing it would all stay private. Some would call it shrewd, others self-indulgent and childish. Either way, public or not, do you think RB care? They are playing out their strategy.

I’d reckon if the roles were reversed many opinions would change regarding the letter based on team/driver preference. But whatever the case, I don’t see it as a mistake at all but simply their way of applying more pressure to an already high pressure situation. Not letting the crisis go away lightly is the point.

We all have opinions as to how certain drivers respond to high pressure and this is simply Red Bull team’s way of continuing to apply pressure as well as officially plant some theoretical seeds should/when this happens again.

All is fair in love and war ladies and gents. Take advantage of every opportunity. Appearances don’t win races, speed and cunning does. This has nothing to do with studious, gentlemanly conduct and everything to do with all out war. Red Bull is making sure everyone knows the gloves are off and they are expecting and ready for any position that should surface. They could care less what people think of their private legal claims and positioning. F1 team principals and high dollar lawyers are not dumb. They know exactly what they are doing and it’s why they have been so successful.
Sorry, but that's way too overthought. Red Bull wanted an appeal simply because they wanted Hamilton's Silverstone points to be removed or for him to be given a race ban so that Max could get 25 points back for free (they expected him to do so if Hamilton isn't on track, anyway).

There was no chess game stuff here, just a simple attempt to regain Max's points advantage.

What they've ended up doing is demonstrating that they are petty - insulting a competitor in official documents as a way to try to paint them as some sort of villain - and that their star driver doesn't pay attention - Max admits that he hadn't read any of the stuff relating to the penalty. Maybe that's not unusual - maybe none of the drivers do - but it's now known that he doesn't. Which looks a little bit silly to some.

Anyway, the season moves on and we have another race this weekend. Popcorn at the ready? 8)
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

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diffuser
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Oddly emotional argument from RBR. Find it curious how "at fault" they feel Hamilton is while, at best, the F1 drivers are split on who's fault it was.

I'm with godlameroso, they should just put their head down and race. Getting caught up in all the emotions is just gonna lead to mistakes. You're playing into Merc's hands. Merc had gotten desperate.

aral
aral
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Joined: Sat Apr 03, 2010 9:49 pm

Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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I am temporarily locking this topic as it is getting out of hand, becoming a fight between several people who each know better than the other. RBR exercised their right to ask for a review, whether or not it would be successful. But just as in other sports, the referees decision is final. Yes, some on here will have different opinions but that does not make them right or wrong. Please act like fans of F1, and leave fanboy talk out of the fora. Thread will be re-opened when you have all cooled down....I hope that it will not be too long.

aral
aral
Moderator
Joined: Sat Apr 03, 2010 9:49 pm

Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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I have unlocked this thread as there is an internal team matter which is worthy of discussion. No harm in discussing it here, but please keep away from the fanboy comments.

maxxer
maxxer
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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never mind i see it now
Last edited by maxxer on Fri Jul 30, 2021 3:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

i70q7m7ghw
i70q7m7ghw
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Joined: Sat Mar 11, 2006 11:27 pm
Location: ...

Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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If anyone is interested, this is the tweet that exposed the employee. Sharing it this way so that the content doesn't load on this site, as it's quite offensive.

Code: Select all

https://twitter.com/TyroneMc__/status/1419962419858878465
Apparently the employee was gloating about the fact he was initially just told to delete his social media and go under the radar until this went away.

EDIT: For the avoidance of doubt, the employee was factory team at Red Bull Racing, so perhaps not as far removed as the press release has tried to suggest.