2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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djones
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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ispano6 wrote:
Sun Aug 01, 2021 6:02 pm
djones wrote:
Sun Aug 01, 2021 4:27 pm
This is going to be so hard for the team going into the summer break.

The worst thing is not losing the lead of the championship, it's the fact Mercedes have fixed their aero issues and are now much faster (than they were). All things being equal I think Max would have probably finished 3rd today after what we saw in the FP sessions and then reinforced in qualifying.
Max, Checo and Norris were all in front of Bottas. How do you figure Max finishing 3rd at best? Max and Checo would have finished at least on the podium if Bottas didn't take them ALL out.
I said all things being equal.....

As in was it a normal race without the rain.

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Sieper
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Then Max would have still ended second at worst. Like every race so far when he actually finished. Two of the three times he was in the lead when disaster struck and the third time (today) in p2.
Just a personal interest, a Family recreating a WW2 May 1940 Dutch warbird from scratch: https://www.facebook.com/FlyingFokkerD21/

i70q7m7ghw
i70q7m7ghw
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Sieper wrote:
Sun Aug 01, 2021 9:09 pm
Then Max would have still ended second at worst. Like every race so far when he actually finished. Two of the three times he was in the lead when disaster struck and the third time (today) in p2.
Exactly. Horner said it on SKY, they lost 3 races this year to bad luck, they would have won them comfortably. Red Bull has the fastest car this year by a decent margin, I fully expect them to pull this back and take both championships. That kind of car advantage doesn't just disappear, and the budget cap this year makes it very difficult for teams to out-develop each other.

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Sieper
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Diesel wrote:
Sun Aug 01, 2021 9:58 pm
Sieper wrote:
Sun Aug 01, 2021 9:09 pm
Then Max would have still ended second at worst. Like every race so far when he actually finished. Two of the three times he was in the lead when disaster struck and the third time (today) in p2.
Exactly. Horner said it on SKY, they lost 3 races this year to bad luck, they would have won them comfortably. Red Bull has the fastest car this year by a decent margin, I fully expect them to pull this back and take both championships. That kind of car advantage doesn't just disappear, and the budget cap this year makes it very difficult for teams to out-develop each other.
Second is still behind Lewis. Max will always beat Bottas, given half a car (pun not intended). It is close and Mercedes had a slight upper hand now in qualy at least the last two races. Even If somehow Max can win a few races disaster might strike again.
Just a personal interest, a Family recreating a WW2 May 1940 Dutch warbird from scratch: https://www.facebook.com/FlyingFokkerD21/

basti313
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Sieper wrote:
Sun Aug 01, 2021 10:14 pm
Diesel wrote:
Sun Aug 01, 2021 9:58 pm
Sieper wrote:
Sun Aug 01, 2021 9:09 pm
Then Max would have still ended second at worst. Like every race so far when he actually finished. Two of the three times he was in the lead when disaster struck and the third time (today) in p2.
Exactly. Horner said it on SKY, they lost 3 races this year to bad luck, they would have won them comfortably. Red Bull has the fastest car this year by a decent margin, I fully expect them to pull this back and take both championships. That kind of car advantage doesn't just disappear, and the budget cap this year makes it very difficult for teams to out-develop each other.
Second is still behind Lewis. Max will always beat Bottas, given half a car (pun not intended). It is close and Mercedes had a slight upper hand now in qualy at least the last two races. Even If somehow Max can win a few races disaster might strike again.
That was always the issue, I do not know why especially the performance in France is overseen. It was always clear, that the Honda will not run without a DNF...maybe they get away now with one extra engine. And we knew after France, that most following tracks will be 50:50 who has the better pace.
My hope was actually that a ~25point advantage stays until the DNF happens. It came quite early together with a 10 place penalty...with this Ham now leads virtually by nearly these 25 points.
It is clear, that Max needs to max everything out. Win when better than the Mercs, at least get a P3 when not. Otherwise the WDC is gone. I do not think a DNF is possible, that would give Merc a 50 point lead with 70 points to win over Ham on merit.

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ispano6
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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basti313 wrote:
Sun Aug 01, 2021 10:27 pm

It was always clear, that the Honda will not run without a DNF...maybe they get away now with one extra engine.
What are you even going on about?

Marty_Y
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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wowgr8
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Diesel wrote:
Sun Aug 01, 2021 9:58 pm
Exactly. Horner said it on SKY, they lost 3 races this year to bad luck, they would have won them comfortably. Red Bull has the fastest car this year by a decent margin, I fully expect them to pull this back and take both championships. That kind of car advantage doesn't just disappear, and the budget cap this year makes it very difficult for teams to out-develop each other.
Except it completely disappeared over the last 2 races and in dramatic fashion. 4 tenths slower than Mercedes on both occasions. The new rear tyre construction seems to have played into Mercedes' hands in a big way

wowgr8
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Looking forward to Spa and especially Monza, I wonder what happens to Max RE the slipstream in qualifying. I think Checo is too slow to give Max a tow for a quali lap and trying to get it from the Mercedes is a risky game, as we saw on Saturday, they'll just wait for the last possible moment to go. I wonder how RB play that

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jumpingfish
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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wowgr8 wrote:
Mon Aug 02, 2021 12:58 am
Looking forward to Spa and especially Monza, I wonder what happens to Max RE the slipstream in qualifying. I think Checo is too slow to give Max a tow for a quali lap and trying to get it from the Mercedes is a risky game, as we saw on Saturday, they'll just wait for the last possible moment to go. I wonder how RB play that
Do you remember that trick back in 2018 (2017?) when Mercedes left the pits before Ferrari, but slowed down near the exit and as a result Vettel had to go ahead of them in qualifying. I can't find what the race it was :? Red Bull should be cunning as Mercedes.

DChemTech
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Diesel wrote:
Sun Aug 01, 2021 9:58 pm
Sieper wrote:
Sun Aug 01, 2021 9:09 pm
Then Max would have still ended second at worst. Like every race so far when he actually finished. Two of the three times he was in the lead when disaster struck and the third time (today) in p2.
Exactly. Horner said it on SKY, they lost 3 races this year to bad luck, they would have won them comfortably. Red Bull has the fastest car this year by a decent margin, I fully expect them to pull this back and take both championships. That kind of car advantage doesn't just disappear, and the budget cap this year makes it very difficult for teams to out-develop each other.
That RB has the faster car consistently is a narrative that mercedes and mercedes fans like to put forward, but it's not true. The cars were pretty equal in Bahrain; had the stewards properly managed track limits in the first half of the race, Max might have been able to overtake for the win, but as it stands he didn't. Imola was equally close. Portugal, Spain - Mercedes was faster. Monaco, Baku - RB was. France was very close and won by RB on strategy. They did have a clear overhand in Austria, but that was fully lost at Silverstone - perhaps MB was slightly faster again, even, and MB was certainly faster in Hungary. Besides that, the RB seems to be more difficult to drive, in the sense that it is consistently fast only in the hands of one driver. While MB has one driver clearly outscoring the other too, the gap between them (provided both finish) is smaller.
Last edited by DChemTech on Mon Aug 02, 2021 8:10 am, edited 1 time in total.

seense
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Just a few parts missing. :shock:
Image

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JordanMugen
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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max_speed wrote:
Sun Aug 01, 2021 4:51 pm
75 points loss in total for max. 50 by merc and another 25 by servile friend pirelli. Is it possible to boycott championship and pull out and leave a blot on merc history they always gonna regret.
Sieper wrote:
Sun Aug 01, 2021 6:24 pm
It is making me sick to the stomach. Mercedes will run with it. No way you can defend from this. I fear Spa. It is such a dangerous track with many places where it can go wrong.
darkpino wrote:
Sun Aug 01, 2021 5:42 pm
Yet the guy who made huge mistakes (and I’m not even counting Silverstone as I think that was an race incident) is leading the championship… unbelievable. First time since I can remember I turned the tv off halfway the race
Jambier wrote:
Sun Aug 01, 2021 7:20 pm
I feel like they are being stolen of the championship.
Any other result that winning the title would be a real blowback for Formula1 I think
Such talk seems unreasonable. The team and driver with most points will, rightfully, win the WCC and WDC, surely? :)

It is up to Red Bull - Honda, Verstappen and Perez to do a better job and win more points!

As Peter Brock always says, "That's motor racing." For having 9 Bathust wins, there are plenty of other Bathurst wins which Mr. Brock lost!

TNTHead wrote:
Sun Aug 01, 2021 5:23 pm
But still two times a merc professionally destroyed the race of the main competitor. Thats looks extremely unlucky
Ryar wrote:
Sun Aug 01, 2021 4:56 pm
I have never seen one driver being so lucky that, the very reason to be leading a championship is through luck. It's simply unbelievable. Not just Hamilton has got lucky in disastrous scenarios, but Max suffering all the bad luck is just beyond belief.
Is it luck or is it skill? Racing incidents happen in racing after all, "that's motor racing." :)

IIRC, Will Power has lost many, many Indycar driver's championships in the final round. Almost to the point where it became an amusing meme for commentators and fans!

Verstappen might do the same, and win on his 5th or 6th real WDC challenge instead of the first real WDC challenge. Sometimes it takes more than one go to get it together! :wink:
Last edited by JordanMugen on Mon Aug 02, 2021 8:34 am, edited 4 times in total.

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Ryar
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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wowgr8 wrote:
Mon Aug 02, 2021 12:56 am
Diesel wrote:
Sun Aug 01, 2021 9:58 pm
Exactly. Horner said it on SKY, they lost 3 races this year to bad luck, they would have won them comfortably. Red Bull has the fastest car this year by a decent margin, I fully expect them to pull this back and take both championships. That kind of car advantage doesn't just disappear, and the budget cap this year makes it very difficult for teams to out-develop each other.
Except it completely disappeared over the last 2 races and in dramatic fashion. 4 tenths slower than Mercedes on both occasions. The new rear tyre construction seems to have played into Mercedes' hands in a big way
More than playing into Mercedes' hand, it may have hurt RB it appears. They have been struggling to balance both front and rear since Silverstone. As a result of that struggle, their car has become understeery massively. Lack of balance could potentially be more than half a second for them. Perez is not a second slower than Mercedes. Before Silverstone, he was behind max by a few tenths, but crucially less than half a second behind best Mercedes. Since Silverstone, it has gone bigger. To me, that seems like RB has been hurt with the compound construction change. Classic 2019 scenario.
Hakuna Matata!

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JordanMugen
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Ryar wrote:
Mon Aug 02, 2021 8:28 am
Since Silverstone, it has gone bigger. To me, that seems like RB has been hurt with the compound construction change. Classic 2019 scenario.
Is that luck or skill that sees RBR having poor balance on revised Pirelli? :)

Pirelli has suitable technical reasons after all.