2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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RZS10
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Yea i also fully expect it to be an opportunistic move heavily dependent on various factors.

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Wouter
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Gillian wrote:
Fri Sep 17, 2021 8:57 pm
That makes sense. I think they are pushing back any engine penalty as far down the line as possible anyway. A race cancelled, another crash, rainy day, crazy qualy... We have seen a lot happen already so best is to wait until it really is no brainer or when you have no other choice.
You could be right.

From Christians column yesterday:

Sochi Up Next
I was looking through the results at the Russian Grand Prix and back in 2018, Max went from last to first before needing to make his pit stop. We were second there last year but it’s a circuit we have never won at.
It has been a Mercedes stronghold. For me, Monza and Sochi, I’ve them marked down mentally as Mercedes circuits so it will be a challenge.
We have the grid penalty to take for Max too, but in Sochi it’s not such a handicap because of the strength of the tow down to turn one.
I’m looking forward to it and seeing how we get on.
https://www.redbull.com/int-en/redbullr ... sy-does-it

Gillian
Gillian
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Yeah I was thinking of that too. In 2018 he went through the pack so fast. Let's see what their pace is first in Sochi. Drag was a problem in Monza but I think it wont be such a problem in Sochi.

dxpetrov
dxpetrov
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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RB will be dominant in Sochi. As similar to Baku and France. Christian is trying to downplay it, but it's obvious.

Gillian
Gillian
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Dominant in France? Verstappen drove an exceptional race but the Mercedes and RB were pretty close on race pace. In Baku Red Bull was faster for sure, agreed.

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RZS10
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Last year Bottas opened up a gap of 9 seconds to Max before the one and only stop and then at the end of the race it was 8 seconds with both probably not pushing all too hard just to make sure to stay ahead of the driver behind only to go for the fastest lap on worn tyres towards the end. It was half a second between Max and Lewis in quali.

With the changes in relative performance compared to last year and the fact that most "Merc strongholds" this year were very much contested territory i believe we can expect a very close fight.
Last edited by RZS10 on Sun Sep 19, 2021 12:49 am, edited 1 time in total.

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yener
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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dxpetrov wrote:
Sat Sep 18, 2021 9:20 am
RB will be dominant in Sochi. As similar to Baku and France. Christian is trying to downplay it, but it's obvious.
They won't. Remember they lost their rear flex wing which was worth a lot at straight lines. And remember they were able to run less rear wing before the MERC updated their car. And dont forget the new " stronger" Pirelli's. It seems to suit the Merc more.
"Life is about passions - Thank you for sharing mine" MSC

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yener
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Gillian wrote:
Fri Sep 17, 2021 8:57 pm
That makes sense. I think they are pushing back any engine penalty as far down the line as possible anyway. A race cancelled, another crash, rainy day, crazy qualy... We have seen a lot happen already so best is to wait until it really is no brainer or when you have no other choice.
They will make a choice after FP1 or at latest FP2. If they are again 0,5 seconds slower as they were in Monza and get threatend by the McLarens, it would be wise to take the penalty. It's like calculating many possible tactics before the race starts. Every scenario at everylap will be calculated. Its the same with the engine. We'll have to wait and see.
"Life is about passions - Thank you for sharing mine" MSC

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etusch
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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yener wrote:
Sun Sep 19, 2021 12:10 am
dxpetrov wrote:
Sat Sep 18, 2021 9:20 am
RB will be dominant in Sochi. As similar to Baku and France. Christian is trying to downplay it, but it's obvious.
They won't. Remember they lost their rear flex wing which was worth a lot at straight lines. And remember they were able to run less rear wing before the MERC updated their car. And dont forget the new " stronger" Pirelli's. It seems to suit the Merc more.
wasn't France race after flex wing thing. They just get performance at ice illegally and nothing more.(Tyres are important but they are good for Mercedes all the time, as everthinng planning to keep them at top.)

If you can say that after update merc can fight with Redbull at the races where Redbull was dominant, I accept it. But despite merc update if Redbull would be winner again where Redbull won then it is track layout thing. which one is better suits to merc or Redbull.
So if track is good for Redbull like baku then Redbull can win if not merc can win (in normal conditions.)

Gillian
Gillian
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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If I recall correctly the French GP was run while there still was a more lenient test for the flexing wings. I think it was a few races later when all parts had to fully comply with the new test. But correct me if I am wrong.

On race pace the gap was not as big as in qualifying in Monza. The biggest problem in Monza was drag and Red Bull not being able to run even less DF, without compromising too much in the corners and the resultant tire wear.

Sochi has a long straight but also many more different corners than Monza which makes it impossible (or not efficient) to run a Monza setup. This means the teams that ran extremely low DF will run more wing in Sochi compared to Monza, where Red Bull will probably will need to add less wing (comparatively).

This is why I believe the gap won't be as big in qualifying as it was in Monza and on race pace it might actually give a small advantage to Red Bull.

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RZS10
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Gillian wrote:
Sun Sep 19, 2021 11:09 am
If I recall correctly the French GP was run while there still was a more lenient test for the flexing wings. I think it was a few races later when all parts had to fully comply with the new test. But correct me if I am wrong.
No, you're right - the first race with the new test without the 20% tolerance was Silverstone. Baku still had the old one, France and both races in Austria had +20%.

Gillian
Gillian
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Thanks for confirming.

Can't wait for Sochi, will be interesting!

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Santozini wrote:
Thu Sep 16, 2021 1:25 pm
Apologies if it has been asked before, but if RB decide to go for the 4th engine on Max's car next race (Russia) will the 3 place grid penalty move to Turkey? If not, they might as well change the engine for Russia
I actually think RedBull is in a position of strength here because they have much less to lose considering their car should work very well on the upcoming tracks after Sochi. The upcoming tracks such as Turkey, USA, Brazil, Abu Dahbi have played well to their car's strong balance in twisty turns, and efficient downforce. Taking the Engine penalty in Sochi is actually the best place as the expected end result of 3rd place should still be achievable with the gap as it is on the rest of the field.

Mercedes on the other hand tend to work well only on tracks that overtaking is already a given, so for them doing damage limitation on these tracks is like giving away their strongest results, and doing damage limitation on their weak tracks actually puts them in a position where a podium is no way guaranteed.

So if BOTH cars must do engine change, advantage RedBull. If Mercedes doesn't need to change engines (This is likley the case) then the stakes are more even considering there are more RedBull tracks coming up. Mercedes has pretty much dashed it's advantage in Spa and Monza.
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adrianjordan
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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RZS10 wrote:
Sun Sep 19, 2021 1:55 pm
Gillian wrote:
Sun Sep 19, 2021 11:09 am
If I recall correctly the French GP was run while there still was a more lenient test for the flexing wings. I think it was a few races later when all parts had to fully comply with the new test. But correct me if I am wrong.
No, you're right - the first race with the new test without the 20% tolerance was Silverstone. Baku still had the old one, France and both races in Austria had +20%.
The same race as Merc introduced their update. No wonder everything got closer.

Either way, I expect Bottas to go well here as he always does. Ricciardo will be on a high and could challenge for the podium as well. Maybe it wouldn't be the worst race to take the new PU.
Lando Norris: "Such a great driver"
Daniel Ricciardo: "Darren" 🤣

Alexf1
Alexf1
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Is Tanabe saying here that the new spec energy store did not come through the "reliability improvement regulation" but through regular update? That would mean the ES did not change between start of 2020 season and now, as you can do only 1 update in these 2 years. https://www.newsdirectory3.com/honda-f1 ... -gate-com/