2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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etusch
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Gillian wrote:
Mon Sep 27, 2021 6:48 pm
Let's wait and see the next race first. I mean, he won sprint in Silverstone but did not get further than lap 1 in the race. He got torpedoed the next race in Hungary, then got pole in Spa, won Zandvoort.... Then you get Monza which was looking pretty good all things considered until the crash and Sochi which was hampered by the penalties... but he still got second. So it's hard to gauge the performance deficit between Mercedes and Red Bull really.
at silverstone Verstappen show his pace and ham was know that if Verstappen has a clear lap than it is impossible to catch him. this is why he desperately went too aggressive.
at monza I believe that that slow pit stop affected him. Of course he didn't do any mistake by pushing. He is not there to let rivals go. Maybe he had focused ham and couldn't see kerb.
At the end we don't expect and (at least I don't want to see) 0.5-1.0 sec advantage per lap. So how it is going is good. I just want to see Verstappen wdc when last race over.

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Sieper
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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And the crash in Monza wouldn’t have happened without the slow pitstop. I think Max will be competitive and I think last race also showed how mature he now is (once again). Even if they rain hadn’t come. He accepted his cards and played them as well as he could. I certainly don’t think he took “too much” out of the tires in any stint. When starting from the back against 19 cars all with free tire choice and new tires the cards are stacked against you.

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Sieper
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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etusch wrote:
Mon Sep 27, 2021 7:05 pm
Gillian wrote:
Mon Sep 27, 2021 6:48 pm
Let's wait and see the next race first. I mean, he won sprint in Silverstone but did not get further than lap 1 in the race. He got torpedoed the next race in Hungary, then got pole in Spa, won Zandvoort.... Then you get Monza which was looking pretty good all things considered until the crash and Sochi which was hampered by the penalties... but he still got second. So it's hard to gauge the performance deficit between Mercedes and Red Bull really.
at silverstone Verstappen show his pace and ham was know that if Verstappen has a clear lap than it is impossible to catch him. this is why he desperately went too aggressive.
at monza I believe that that slow pit stop affected him. Of course he didn't do any mistake by pushing. He is not there to let rivals go. Maybe he had focused ham and couldn't see kerb.
At the end we don't expect and (at least I don't want to see) 0.5-1.0 sec advantage per lap. So how it is going is good. I just want to see Verstappen wdc when last race over.
This! Fully agree with you, as almost always. I compliment you on your guts to always say what you think honoustly =D>

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godlameroso
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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If it's a clear straightforward race I expect RBR to be very strong in Turkey. Sochi was important because it shows the car isn't great at handling traffic. Then again Mercedes didn't have it easy either against the McLaren, or the Alpine or the Aston or the Ferrari.

This changes the strategy because the others are closer it makes finding gaps trickier. Pit stops are harder now as well. I hope Verstappen has learned some lessons having to duel with traffic with regards to managing his approach, when he can and can't push taking life out of the tires etc. In that sense Perez has been getting plenty of experience in that regard. It's only when you've dealt with the car at its worst that you can start to appreciate the good in it.
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ispano6
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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godlameroso wrote:
Mon Sep 27, 2021 8:01 pm
If it's a clear straightforward race I expect RBR to be very strong in Turkey. Sochi was important because it shows the car isn't great at handling traffic. Then again Mercedes didn't have it easy either against the McLaren, or the Alpine or the Aston or the Ferrari.

This changes the strategy because the others are closer it makes finding gaps trickier. Pit stops are harder now as well. I hope Verstappen has learned some lessons having to duel with traffic with regards to managing his approach, when he can and can't push taking life out of the tires etc. In that sense Perez has been getting plenty of experience in that regard. It's only when you've dealt with the car at its worst that you can start to appreciate the good in it.
Max was strong in Turkey in the rain last year and should have won if Sergio hadn't been in the way. Also the mechanic screwing up the front wing didn't help him recover either. I'm expecting the quality and reliability of the Honda PU to help RB for the rest of the season. He doesn't need to win them all of course, just enough to finish ahead by even just one point. The pit crew need to be on top of it too and not be too hasty and make mistakes.

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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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ispano6 wrote:
Mon Sep 27, 2021 8:19 pm
godlameroso wrote:
Mon Sep 27, 2021 8:01 pm
If it's a clear straightforward race I expect RBR to be very strong in Turkey. Sochi was important because it shows the car isn't great at handling traffic. Then again Mercedes didn't have it easy either against the McLaren, or the Alpine or the Aston or the Ferrari.

This changes the strategy because the others are closer it makes finding gaps trickier. Pit stops are harder now as well. I hope Verstappen has learned some lessons having to duel with traffic with regards to managing his approach, when he can and can't push taking life out of the tires etc. In that sense Perez has been getting plenty of experience in that regard. It's only when you've dealt with the car at its worst that you can start to appreciate the good in it.
Max was strong in Turkey in the rain last year and should have won if Sergio hadn't been in the way. Also the mechanic screwing up the front wing didn't help him recover either. I'm expecting the quality and reliability of the Honda PU to help RB for the rest of the season. He doesn't need to win them all of course, just enough to finish ahead by even just one point. The pit crew need to be on top of it too and not be too hasty and make mistakes.
Sergio wasn't "in the way", listen to the commentary in the video below. Max ruined any chance he had of winning when he spun out trying a poorly judged overtake which meant he had to pit again for new tyres.

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/vide ... 91663.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_Turkish_Grand_Prix
Both Red Bull drivers accelerated slowly from the standing start, and were overtaken by other drivers who started behind them,[93] with Verstappen falling from second to eighth place at the start.[94] Much of the grid chose to launch in second gear, but the drivers of the two Honda powered teams (Red Bull and Alpha Tauri) all chose to start in first gear.[95]

Verstappen, who had been unable to pass Vettel, waited until lap eleven to switch from the full wets to the intermediates. This allowed Verstappen to emerge from the pit lane ahead of the Ferrari driver.[94] Albon led a Grand Prix for the first time before he took a pit stop for intermediate tyres on lap twelve.[1]

Verstappen spun at high speed on lap eighteen while trying to pass Pérez. This damaged the Red Bull's tyres, meaning that he had to pit again.[94] This allowed Albon, Vettel, and Hamilton to pass Verstappen. Albon then began to catch Pérez, only to fall back as his tyres wore out.[93]
Last edited by Marty_Y on Mon Sep 27, 2021 9:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Gillian
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Marty_Y wrote:
Mon Sep 27, 2021 8:48 pm
ispano6 wrote:
Mon Sep 27, 2021 8:19 pm
godlameroso wrote:
Mon Sep 27, 2021 8:01 pm
If it's a clear straightforward race I expect RBR to be very strong in Turkey. Sochi was important because it shows the car isn't great at handling traffic. Then again Mercedes didn't have it easy either against the McLaren, or the Alpine or the Aston or the Ferrari.

This changes the strategy because the others are closer it makes finding gaps trickier. Pit stops are harder now as well. I hope Verstappen has learned some lessons having to duel with traffic with regards to managing his approach, when he can and can't push taking life out of the tires etc. In that sense Perez has been getting plenty of experience in that regard. It's only when you've dealt with the car at its worst that you can start to appreciate the good in it.
Max was strong in Turkey in the rain last year and should have won if Sergio hadn't been in the way. Also the mechanic screwing up the front wing didn't help him recover either. I'm expecting the quality and reliability of the Honda PU to help RB for the rest of the season. He doesn't need to win them all of course, just enough to finish ahead by even just one point. The pit crew need to be on top of it too and not be too hasty and make mistakes.
Sergio wasn't "in the way", listen to the commentary in the video below. Max ruined any chance he had of winning when he spun out trying a I'll judged overtake which meant he had to pit again for new tyres.

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/vide ... 91663.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_Turkish_Grand_Prix
Both Red Bull drivers accelerated slowly from the standing start, and were overtaken by other drivers who started behind them,[93] with Verstappen falling from second to eighth place at the start.[94] Much of the grid chose to launch in second gear, but the drivers of the two Honda powered teams (Red Bull and Alpha Tauri) all chose to start in first gear.[95]

Verstappen, who had been unable to pass Vettel, waited until lap eleven to switch from the full wets to the intermediates. This allowed Verstappen to emerge from the pit lane ahead of the Ferrari driver.[94] Albon led a Grand Prix for the first time before he took a pit stop for intermediate tyres on lap twelve.[1]

Verstappen spun at high speed on lap eighteen while trying to pass Pérez. This damaged the Red Bull's tyres, meaning that he had to pit again.[94] This allowed Albon, Vettel, and Hamilton to pass Verstappen. Albon then began to catch Pérez, only to fall back as his tyres wore out.[93]
I remember Verstappen himself claiming he did not intend to overtake there but he lost control because of the dirty air caused by the car in front. Other than that it's all a bit fuzzy for me, but I clearly remember that interview.

Marty_Y
Marty_Y
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Gillian wrote:
Mon Sep 27, 2021 9:06 pm
Marty_Y wrote:
Mon Sep 27, 2021 8:48 pm
ispano6 wrote:
Mon Sep 27, 2021 8:19 pm


Max was strong in Turkey in the rain last year and should have won if Sergio hadn't been in the way. Also the mechanic screwing up the front wing didn't help him recover either. I'm expecting the quality and reliability of the Honda PU to help RB for the rest of the season. He doesn't need to win them all of course, just enough to finish ahead by even just one point. The pit crew need to be on top of it too and not be too hasty and make mistakes.
Sergio wasn't "in the way", listen to the commentary in the video below. Max ruined any chance he had of winning when he spun out trying a I'll judged overtake which meant he had to pit again for new tyres.

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/vide ... 91663.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_Turkish_Grand_Prix
Both Red Bull drivers accelerated slowly from the standing start, and were overtaken by other drivers who started behind them,[93] with Verstappen falling from second to eighth place at the start.[94] Much of the grid chose to launch in second gear, but the drivers of the two Honda powered teams (Red Bull and Alpha Tauri) all chose to start in first gear.[95]

Verstappen, who had been unable to pass Vettel, waited until lap eleven to switch from the full wets to the intermediates. This allowed Verstappen to emerge from the pit lane ahead of the Ferrari driver.[94] Albon led a Grand Prix for the first time before he took a pit stop for intermediate tyres on lap twelve.[1]

Verstappen spun at high speed on lap eighteen while trying to pass Pérez. This damaged the Red Bull's tyres, meaning that he had to pit again.[94] This allowed Albon, Vettel, and Hamilton to pass Verstappen. Albon then began to catch Pérez, only to fall back as his tyres wore out.[93]
I remember Verstappen himself claiming he did not intend to overtake there but he lost control because of the dirty air caused by the car in front. Other than that it's all a bit fuzzy for me, but I clearly remember that interview.
I haven't seen that interview, I will have a look for it later.

The point of my previous post wasn't meant to criticize Max, I just thought it was unfair to say Sergio was "in the way" like he was doing something wrong, he was racing for the win and had no obligation to get out of Max's way or do anything different than what he was doing.

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ispano6
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Marty_Y wrote:
Mon Sep 27, 2021 10:05 pm


I haven't seen that interview, I will have a look for it later.

The point of my previous post wasn't meant to criticize Max, I just thought it was unfair to say Sergio was "in the way" like he was doing something wrong, he was racing for the win and had no obligation to get out of Max's way or do anything different than what he was doing.
Don't get so riled up, Sergio was in front of Max and was slower coming out of that sequence of corners. If Sergio wasn't there Max wouldn't have had that off. So yes, he was in the way. I didn't say Sergio was wrong to be there, just that he was in Max's way. Max had much faster pace and had to avoid running into the back of Sergio.

Dee
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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El Scorchio wrote:
Mon Sep 27, 2021 2:49 pm
Sieper wrote:
Mon Sep 27, 2021 2:33 pm
El Scorchio wrote:
Mon Sep 27, 2021 1:22 pm
He's doing it because that's what the team wants him to do. Go long in the first stint and try and be between Verstappen and the Mercs after they've all pitted to hold them up. Then try and make up the places he sacrifices for himself by doing that on a second shorter stint with fresh tyres vs the cars around him.

Not sure the gung ho approach is always good anyway- Verstappen had chewed through his tyres yesterday- particularly in the first stint- and wasn't looking in a good place until the rain came along.
Right. And the entire top 10 starting on fresh tires of free choice (because Q2 was in the rain on inters) and Max thus getting stuck behind the bottom of the top 10 (Ricciardo Alonso) on equally fresh tires, in Alonso’s case even whites, Instead of them pitting away out before him as their used reds would be gone had nothing to do with that. Did you not see the gap Max put on Leclerc in the few laps he did actually had free air? Nor Max coming from the back and having to pass both Leclerc and Bottas who normally are not that far back and have fast cars had anything to do with that.

I know you know better then that. It was just very unlucky that rained out Q2 and leclerc and Bottas at the back and when and where Max hit traffic. He almost caught up to Hamilton when they pitted and when Max got stuck again o yellows that now needed to last to the end.

I was very impressed he did not do a brutal defence on Alonso, not even on Leclerc (who did himself do a brutal defensive move on Max early in the race). He just accepted the cards that were dealt to him and when the rain came (luckily) everyone had the chance to capitalize. Had they not?
Of course- but my point being that he took all the life out of his hard tyres making the moves up the field, which was great initially, but then he was in a bit of a predicament when faced with going for a long second stint on the mediums and potentially putting himself at risk of losing places or having to pit again. He certainly wasn't going to get any further up than 7th apart from Perez pitting, although I don't recall if he was under serious threat from behind in those last 15 laps or so. Would he have benefitted more from being a bit more measured in the first stint? Possibly, but it's all theoretical. Either way, the rain came and proved incredibly helpful.

For some reason you seem to be interpreting this as some sort of attack on him. It isn't, and you don't need to 'stick up' for him and get your customary dig at Leclerc in. I was merely addressing another poster to say that gung ho might not always be the best approach.
Can we acknowledge that Russia is a high degradation circuit and Max was on a low downforce setup which was going to eat up his tyres and that he was less than 4 seconds away from Lewis before Ricciardo pitted.

The mediums being softer were going to degrade more and Max was stuck behind Dan which Lewis himself could not pass for over 20 laps..

Then Max on the low downforce setup which is worse for rain conditions posted the fastest lap on slicks, overtaking two cars in the process and then came back out and overtook 3 cars to get P2 after being the one to make the call to switch to inters

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godlameroso
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Yeah there's lots of little things to tidy up before the final season push. Turkey is also a very low grip surface, I fear the same graining issues, particularly since the only part of the lap that really loads the the tire is turn 8. The rest of the time the tire is chillin'.

It's an interesting circuit this one, counter clockwise, tire killing turn 8, the grip level keeps changing all the time, and the fastest line is very unorthodox because so many of the corners are blind on entry, you're always anticipating the entry to the next corner. Turn 1 is a spinner, but you have to take risks to get it right. Turn 3 you never feel like you quite get it right no matter how many times you do it. Sometimes you think you could have done it better but you end up getting a better exit out of 6 and you're like, whatever. Then every time you plow into 7 you have that creeping sensation that you're going to botch the bocht on exit.

Sector three is basically you just wondering how you got that killer sector time that one time, just because every little part of it can cost you dearly.
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etusch
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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we can call turn 1 bottas killer as well 😁

Gillian
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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ispano6 wrote:
Mon Sep 27, 2021 10:23 pm
Marty_Y wrote:
Mon Sep 27, 2021 10:05 pm


I haven't seen that interview, I will have a look for it later.

The point of my previous post wasn't meant to criticize Max, I just thought it was unfair to say Sergio was "in the way" like he was doing something wrong, he was racing for the win and had no obligation to get out of Max's way or do anything different than what he was doing.
Don't get so riled up, Sergio was in front of Max and was slower coming out of that sequence of corners. If Sergio wasn't there Max wouldn't have had that off. So yes, he was in the way. I didn't say Sergio was wrong to be there, just that he was in Max's way. Max had much faster pace and had to avoid running into the back of Sergio.
Yeah it was all a bit unfortunate and the front wing debacle didn't really help either.

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Sieper
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Marty_Y wrote:
Mon Sep 27, 2021 10:05 pm
Gillian wrote:
Mon Sep 27, 2021 9:06 pm
Marty_Y wrote:
Mon Sep 27, 2021 8:48 pm


Sergio wasn't "in the way", listen to the commentary in the video below. Max ruined any chance he had of winning when he spun out trying a I'll judged overtake which meant he had to pit again for new tyres.

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/vide ... 91663.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_Turkish_Grand_Prix

I remember Verstappen himself claiming he did not intend to overtake there but he lost control because of the dirty air caused by the car in front. Other than that it's all a bit fuzzy for me, but I clearly remember that interview.
I haven't seen that interview, I will have a look for it later.

The point of my previous post wasn't meant to criticize Max, I just thought it was unfair to say Sergio was "in the way" like he was doing something wrong, he was racing for the win and had no obligation to get out of Max's way or do anything different than what he was doing.
Sergio was just blocking for Stroll junior. Who got the pole as they gambled on going to the inters early so had the most heat into them. On the full wets Max was the fastest by a mile. A weekend on a wet and slippery track where Max was so quick, still lost pole and perhaps was trying the impossible on track that early on. How the track will be and will suit next weekend is Anybodies guess.

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NathanOlder
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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I remember last years race well, I remember Max messing up the start very badly (something you all seem to critisise Lewis for this year) and then spinning twice in the race, both times his own fault. He started on the front row and finished nearly a minute behind the winner. So to say Perez got in the way is a little wide of the mark dont you think ?

Hopefully this year the ice has gone and we get some decent racing. We all want to see turn 8 taken in anger, not tip toeing around like they did last year .
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