2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

This forum contains threads to discuss teams themselves. Anything not technical about the cars, including restructuring, performances etc belongs here.
User avatar
dans79
215
Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2013 6:33 pm
Location: USA

Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

Post

Ryar wrote:
Wed Dec 01, 2021 2:30 am
dans79 wrote:
Tue Nov 30, 2021 10:27 pm
bigblue wrote:
Tue Nov 30, 2021 9:30 pm
Also mentioned at https://www.grandprix.com/news/red-bull ... ocket.html, without description of who said it to who. One of these two sources may be copying the other, who may be conjecturing completely. But for what it's worth, I thought I'd mention it.

I'm sure Honda will have taken a look to see what they can do, if they really have to, but everyone had been supposing the gain would be small even on a new engine. Who knows ...

For now I don't believe it will happen, these stories are too vague ! :-)
Personally i think this is all just conjecture.

https://www.planetf1.com/news/helmut-ma ... -complete/
Quopte from Marko published on the 26th!
Asked by Sky if another engine change would happen at Red Bull, Marko replied, quoted by Motorsport-Total.com: “No, we are not confronted with such fluctuations from Honda’s point of view. Our engines are stable.

“The fluctuation range is within half a percent and not like Mercedes, where it accounts for almost two per cent.”

And then you have this as well.




Not to mention taking an engine penalty at a track where you have no idea how hard it will be to overtake hardly sounds like a good idea!
You need to decide if Helmut is a good source for you. Because last time when he said Mercedes are scheduled to take Engine penalty for Lewis, you junked him. Now you are quoting him.
You realize there's a big difference between him discussing what another team is going to do, and what his team is going to do right?
182 103 103 7

User avatar
Ryar
2
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2021 4:28 pm

Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

Post

dans79 wrote:
Wed Dec 01, 2021 2:33 am
Ryar wrote:
Wed Dec 01, 2021 2:30 am
dans79 wrote:
Tue Nov 30, 2021 10:27 pm


Personally i think this is all just conjecture.

https://www.planetf1.com/news/helmut-ma ... -complete/
Quopte from Marko published on the 26th!



And then you have this as well.




Not to mention taking an engine penalty at a track where you have no idea how hard it will be to overtake hardly sounds like a good idea!
You need to decide if Helmut is a good source for you. Because last time when he said Mercedes are scheduled to take Engine penalty for Lewis, you junked him. Now you are quoting him.
You realize there's a big difference between him discussing what another team is going to do, and what his team is going to do right?
So it's a matter of convenience.
Hakuna Matata!

User avatar
dans79
215
Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2013 6:33 pm
Location: USA

Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

Post

Ryar wrote:
Wed Dec 01, 2021 3:44 am
dans79 wrote:
Wed Dec 01, 2021 2:33 am
Ryar wrote:
Wed Dec 01, 2021 2:30 am
You need to decide if Helmut is a good source for you. Because last time when he said Mercedes are scheduled to take Engine penalty for Lewis, you junked him. Now you are quoting him.
You realize there's a big difference between him discussing what another team is going to do, and what his team is going to do right?
So it's a matter of convenience.
It's a matter of realistic knowledge!
182 103 103 7

User avatar
Ryar
2
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2021 4:28 pm

Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

Post

45 People from Mercedes! I wish there could be some details as to which particular department within the PU org of Mercedes these people com efrom.



Curious to know if someone has info. Why has RB not offered to all the Japanese engineers in Sakura from engine division? Or maybe that info is simply missing.
Hakuna Matata!

Just_a_fan
Just_a_fan
466
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2010 7:37 pm

Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

Post

I see Red Bull's head of aerodynamics, Dan Fallows, is leaving to join Aston Martin. Sounds like a hefty period of gardening leave before he can start work there, however.

That's the second senior aerodynamicist that RBR have lost to AM after Andrew Alessi was "poached" earlier this year.

Edit: Fallows was announced earlier this year too, it seems but I missed it back then.
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

User avatar
Juzh
135
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 7:45 am

Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

Post

dans79 wrote:
Wed Dec 01, 2021 3:47 am
Ryar wrote:
Wed Dec 01, 2021 3:44 am
dans79 wrote:
Wed Dec 01, 2021 2:33 am


You realize there's a big difference between him discussing what another team is going to do, and what his team is going to do right?
So it's a matter of convenience.
It's a matter of realistic knowledge!
In general I agree, however Marko hearing whispers of incoming engine penalties for another team from inside paddock is not unrealistic. This is what happened in this case after all, so he was right.

User avatar
Ryar
2
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2021 4:28 pm

Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

Post

Just_a_fan wrote:
Wed Dec 01, 2021 9:49 am
I see Red Bull's head of aerodynamics, Dan Fallows, is leaving to join Aston Martin. Sounds like a hefty period of gardening leave before he can start work there, however.

That's the second senior aerodynamicist that RBR have lost to AM after Andrew Alessi was "poached" earlier this year.

Edit: Fallows was announced earlier this year too, it seems but I missed it back then.
It's an interesting situation with these guys. Peter Prodromou went to McLaren and barely made an impression, until James Key joined. It was a mistake from RB to not have promoted James Key from Toro Rosso to RB, who is a fine technology leader as proved with Force India, Sauber, Toro Rosso and now with McLaren.

Dan Fallows lead the RB17 that started out as quite a disappointment, until Newey came back to design office. Both these guys were second-in command for Newey. It would be interesting to see how Fallows would do at AM.
Hakuna Matata!

Just_a_fan
Just_a_fan
466
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2010 7:37 pm

Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

Post

Ryar wrote:
Wed Dec 01, 2021 10:32 am
Just_a_fan wrote:
Wed Dec 01, 2021 9:49 am
I see Red Bull's head of aerodynamics, Dan Fallows, is leaving to join Aston Martin. Sounds like a hefty period of gardening leave before he can start work there, however.

That's the second senior aerodynamicist that RBR have lost to AM after Andrew Alessi was "poached" earlier this year.

Edit: Fallows was announced earlier this year too, it seems but I missed it back then.
It's an interesting situation with these guys. Peter Prodromou went to McLaren and barely made an impression, until James Key joined. It was mistake from RB to not have promoted James Key from Toro Rosso to RB, who is a fine technology leader as proved with Force India, Sauber, Toro Rosso and now with McLaren.

Dan Fallows lead the RB17 that started out as quite a disappointment, until Newey came back to design office. Both these guys were second-in command for Newey. It would be interesting to see how Fallows would do at AM.
Some people fly when they are made the top dog so that might happen with Fallows.

I do wonder if there might be a case of "Newey would/wouldn't do it this way" at Red Bull. Perhaps his status cramps others - it's not unknown in organisations for that to happen. The Royal Navy had, for many, many years, the mantra "what would Nelson do?". It led to lots of problems within the organisation over the years.

Of course, with the new cars being fairly prescriptive and the lead in times for design, any effect Fallows and Alessi might have at AM won't realistically be seen until 2023 at the earliest.

The movement of staff between teams is, of course, nothing new and is to be expected especially where people feel the need for a new challenge - such as moving from a dominant team to one currently less dominant in the hope of helping that one become the dominant team. I can see why people would move to Red Bull's new engine facility for this type of reason.
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

User avatar
Sieper
61
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:19 pm

Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

Post

Ryar wrote:
Wed Dec 01, 2021 10:32 am
Just_a_fan wrote:
Wed Dec 01, 2021 9:49 am
I see Red Bull's head of aerodynamics, Dan Fallows, is leaving to join Aston Martin. Sounds like a hefty period of gardening leave before he can start work there, however.

That's the second senior aerodynamicist that RBR have lost to AM after Andrew Alessi was "poached" earlier this year.

Edit: Fallows was announced earlier this year too, it seems but I missed it back then.
It's an interesting situation with these guys. Peter Prodromou went to McLaren and barely made an impression, until James Key joined. It was a mistake from RB to not have promoted James Key from Toro Rosso to RB, who is a fine technology leader as proved with Force India, Sauber, Toro Rosso and now with McLaren.

Dan Fallows lead the RB17 that started out as quite a disappointment, until Newey came back to design office. Both these guys were second-in command for Newey. It would be interesting to see how Fallows would do at AM.
There will be no RB17. It will be the RB18.

User avatar
Juzh
135
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 7:45 am

Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

Post

Ryar wrote:
Wed Dec 01, 2021 10:32 am
Dan Fallows lead the RB17 that started out as quite a disappointment, until Newey came back to design office.
We have any source on this?
Last edited by Juzh on Wed Dec 01, 2021 2:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Ryar
2
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2021 4:28 pm

Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

Post

Sieper wrote:
Wed Dec 01, 2021 12:03 pm
Ryar wrote:
Wed Dec 01, 2021 10:32 am
Just_a_fan wrote:
Wed Dec 01, 2021 9:49 am
I see Red Bull's head of aerodynamics, Dan Fallows, is leaving to join Aston Martin. Sounds like a hefty period of gardening leave before he can start work there, however.

That's the second senior aerodynamicist that RBR have lost to AM after Andrew Alessi was "poached" earlier this year.

Edit: Fallows was announced earlier this year too, it seems but I missed it back then.
It's an interesting situation with these guys. Peter Prodromou went to McLaren and barely made an impression, until James Key joined. It was a mistake from RB to not have promoted James Key from Toro Rosso to RB, who is a fine technology leader as proved with Force India, Sauber, Toro Rosso and now with McLaren.

Dan Fallows lead the RB17 that started out as quite a disappointment, until Newey came back to design office. Both these guys were second-in command for Newey. It would be interesting to see how Fallows would do at AM.
There will be no RB17. It will be the RB18.
AAArrrggg..... that's RB13 for 2017. Bad typo. Sorry. :evil:
Hakuna Matata!

User avatar
Sieper
61
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:19 pm

Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

Post

Juzh wrote:
Wed Dec 01, 2021 12:27 pm
Sieper wrote:
Wed Dec 01, 2021 12:03 pm
Dan Fallows lead the RB17 that started out as quite a disappointment, until Newey came back to design office.
We have any source on this?

Huh, you quoted me on this, but I never wrote that text. It is from ryar. Weird :D

User avatar
Juzh
135
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 7:45 am

Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

Post

Sieper wrote:
Wed Dec 01, 2021 2:06 pm
Juzh wrote:
Wed Dec 01, 2021 12:27 pm
Sieper wrote:
Wed Dec 01, 2021 12:03 pm
Dan Fallows lead the RB17 that started out as quite a disappointment, until Newey came back to design office.
We have any source on this?

Huh, you quoted me on this, but I never wrote that text. It is from ryar. Weird :D
When I was isolating relevant sentence I accidentally deleted ryar's quote from comment chain and left yours in. Fixed it now.

User avatar
godlameroso
311
Joined: Sat Jan 16, 2010 8:27 pm
Location: Miami FL

Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

Post

etusch wrote:
Tue Nov 30, 2021 8:35 pm
I saw this in a Facebook group. So it may be lesser trusthworty. But at the end it is expected to use pu at highest modes

https://i.ibb.co/FV3h24F/Screenshot-202 ... -touch.jpg
They won't have to introduce a new engine, they already have it in the pool :wink: This power unit has only done 1 race just like Hamilton's, and Honda has a good idea about what they can do to make it last just 2 races instead of 8.
Saishū kōnā

User avatar
etusch
80
Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2009 10:09 pm
Location: Turkey

Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

Post

godlameroso wrote:
Wed Dec 01, 2021 3:08 pm


They won't have to introduce a new engine, they already have it in the pool :wink: This power unit has only done 1 race just like Hamilton's, and Honda has a good idea about what they can do to make it last just 2 races instead of 8.
They say they have 2 pu to use. 1 per race. Hope they will not change pu but again we can see vtec kick in