2021 Mclaren F1 Team

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haza
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Joined: 18 May 2015, 23:14

Re: 2021 Mclaren F1 Team

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CjC wrote:
06 Jun 2021, 20:17
Well so much for the papaya rocket..... :roll:

I’m not going to comment on Daniel.... He was poor and I’m sure he knows it.

The messy Quali hampered Lando, even if he managed to start P6 with just his used tyre run he would have had a high chance of finishing on the podium, but he got a penalty and had a bad start so he got the best he could in the end, laptime wise he looked in the same ball park as Vettel and Gasly et al just the constant F1 struggle for overtaking (again) hampered his chances to finish higher up.

I think Ferrari will once again out qualify Mclaren in France but they’ll be in the fight during the race then it’s onto Austria were I’m very interested to see how Mclaren perform however Ferrari and Leclerc themselves where very quick in ‘19.....
In fairness to the macs a lot of cars struggled to follow today bottas couldn’t pass Norris, Norris couldn’t pass tsunoda Hamilton couldn’t pass Perez sainz and alonso where both stuck behind ricciardo and the Alpha tauri car couldn’t overtake leclerc after the double lock up seems following other cars was tricky today France is next which we went well at back in 2019

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mwillems
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Joined: 04 Sep 2016, 22:11

Re: 2021 Mclaren F1 Team

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haza wrote:
06 Jun 2021, 20:26
CjC wrote:
06 Jun 2021, 20:17
Well so much for the papaya rocket..... :roll:

I’m not going to comment on Daniel.... He was poor and I’m sure he knows it.

The messy Quali hampered Lando, even if he managed to start P6 with just his used tyre run he would have had a high chance of finishing on the podium, but he got a penalty and had a bad start so he got the best he could in the end, laptime wise he looked in the same ball park as Vettel and Gasly et al just the constant F1 struggle for overtaking (again) hampered his chances to finish higher up.

I think Ferrari will once again out qualify Mclaren in France but they’ll be in the fight during the race then it’s onto Austria were I’m very interested to see how Mclaren perform however Ferrari and Leclerc themselves where very quick in ‘19.....
In fairness to the macs a lot of cars struggled to follow today bottas couldn’t pass Norris, Norris couldn’t pass tsunoda Hamilton couldn’t pass Perez sainz and alonso where both stuck behind ricciardo and the Alpha tauri car couldn’t overtake leclerc after the double lock up seems following other cars was tricky today France is next which we went well at back in 2019
Bottas struggles to pass traffic everywhere, that's not Baku...! :lol:
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mwillems
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Re: 2021 Mclaren F1 Team

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SmallSoldier wrote:
06 Jun 2021, 17:58
mwillems wrote:
SmallSoldier wrote:
06 Jun 2021, 16:40

He is doing a great job carrying the team during this first quarter of a season!


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He is, and what's great is he is doing that despite his mistakes and his less experience than many on the grid, so there is plenty of room for improvement too (Some of it low hanging fruit), so still a positive upward trajectory for him I hope.
Agreed... I was actually thinking about his first season with the team... Considering how much hype Yuki for example had before the season started, how many mistakes the 3 rookies have made this season so far, in comparison Lando’s first season was very strong... At this point I believe most agree that Carlos may have been underrated and for Lando to be there with him, sometimes even with an edge in a few races over Carlos also shows how strong his first season was and how well he drove last season too.

Experience and maturity only come with time, I’m sure he will keep developing... There will be good races, great races and maybe some bad ones... If the balance is a positive one by the time the season ends... That will be fantastic.

I also believe that Daniel is looking to be struggling more than he actually is... Yes, he is behind what is expected, but Lando maybe getting the most out of a car that is probably trickier to drive than what the results seem to indicate


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I think there are rookies you can compare him to favourably and some who would eclipse him, All Japanese drivers related to Honda get hyped, and I don't know why, there seems to be an enthusiasm for it in the sport and the press, I looked at Yuki's record and to be honest he's doing better in his first season than I thought he would be, I expected him to be a bit rubbish, but perhaps the Alpha Tauri is a good car. I also think he is there simply because of Honda.

Mazepin is just an absolute Pay Driver and not worth anything in my view, there were better drivers to promote, but Schumacher is an interesting one. Throughout his career he has taken one season to get warmed up and then he has shown his speed - so a direct comparison is a little harder but yes if you do a direct comparison then Lando looks favourible, but then Lando didn't have to drive that pig of a car.

If however, you compare Lando's season to Leclercs first full season which was in an inferior car, then Leclerc wins hands down for me, Leclerc has shown championship talent, as has Max. Or Hamilton, Alonso and Raikonnen (OK not quite up there, but up there) in their first season. For me, Lando is not there yet, he's a slower burner I feel, might take a bit to get to full beans, but as long as he does, it's all good. Like the car, he continues to develop so one cannot complain. Not in driving style but perhaps in career trajectory, Lando feels more like a Jenson Button, clear talent and the ability to rise to the top, but not necessarily at a stratospheric rate. Not that I think he drives like Button, because no-one drives like Jensons silky smooth hands... sigh... lol
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Emag
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Joined: 11 Feb 2019, 14:56

Re: 2021 Mclaren F1 Team

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I agree, Leclerc's first season was amazing as he only needed a couple of races to start obliterating Ericsson. And a lot of world champions have shown their speed right away, but honestly, you can't discredit other drivers who don't display mega talent in their first seasons. For some people, it takes time to get properly used to Formula 1. And some simply find themselves at bad circumstances to display their skill.

Lando has matured into a very decent driver. Unfortunately Daniel is currently not living up to his reputation, so we can't properly gauge how good Lando is. But I reckon he would be doing very well if he was driving for one of the top teams. Maybe not Verstappen / Hamilton level just yet, but I doubt he would be miles off the pace.

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mwillems
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Re: 2021 Mclaren F1 Team

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I'm not really trying to discredit anyone at all, just adding a little context to Small Soldiers post in that Lando is have a solid start to his career, in fact a very good start, but not stellar. In fact Jenson is someone who took time to mature and did OK, hence the comparison.
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CjC
CjC
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Joined: 03 Jul 2012, 20:13

Re: 2021 Mclaren F1 Team

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The Lando/ Jenson comparison has crossed my mind also
Just a fan's point of view

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mwillems
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Joined: 04 Sep 2016, 22:11

Re: 2021 Mclaren F1 Team

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CjC wrote:
06 Jun 2021, 22:58
The Lando/ Jenson comparison has crossed my mind also
In what way did it cross your mind?

I'm think "driving styles or mental development", not so much "I was daydreaming " lol
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Xero
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Joined: 28 Jan 2014, 15:11
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Re: 2021 Mclaren F1 Team

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I think showing any signs of steady progress in F1 is a really difficult thing to achieve. It's often why a lot of these young rookies don't last more than a couple of seasons. It's maybe a bit unfair comparing drivers directly, but Lando is definitely warranting all the hype being thrown his way. Also starting seeing a new side to him this season, there's a steely determination growing beneath his fun personality. We will find out his true level when he and Daniel start equal footing next season with the new regulations. It's going to be a fairly big reset down the whole field.

runningmanz
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Joined: 25 May 2021, 14:57

Re: 2021 Mclaren F1 Team

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Disappointing race for McLaren after the hype of having a great top speed and being strong for Baku. Surely they went wrong going high df instead of low df. Lando started the race poor and finished strongly while it was the opposite for Dan who couldn't make the restart count. EDIT: In hindsight not too much he could do being on the outside into T1 in a three car battle and then being tagged by Gio into T2 ruining his chance to slipstream Alonso after T2 down that straight. He was lucky to finish with some points though after getting smashed into the back by Gio going into T2
On the positive side Dan's pace was comparable to Lando for most of the race, he lost the bulk of his time to Lando when they left him out on the worn softs for a few more laps after Lando went for the undercut. So he is improving and getting more comfortable in the car. I don't get why they didn't start him on the hards. Was a chance to possibly finish ahead of Lando there.

Will be good for Dan to get back to some more forgiving tracks now and hopefully he can nail qualli. We saw in Spain he can still beat Lando even while not comfortable in the car, so when he is fully comfortable which I don't think is that far off now he will start beating Lando more regularly.

Not sure why there is continual speculation and talk that McLaren are going to replace Dan. His last 3 races two out of the 3 he either beat Lando or at worst was thereabouts on his pace during the race despite not yet being fully comfortable in the car so he is adapting. Monaco he had no chance to redeem himself in the race because you can't pass and ended his 14+ run streak of points scoring, which is just one strong asset of Dans ability he brings to the team. He really needs to clean up qualli though and I'm sure he will as he gets more comfortable and also take more risks but that will also come as he gains confidence in exploring the cars limits. The simulator time seems to be paying off and I would expect more of it over the next two weeks before France.

Overall I think he is getting there and there is a bit too much exaggeration and misinformation about a "lack" of progress. Ricciardo has a very high performance ceiling once comfortable in a car. McLaren know this and in the long run despite what the doomsayers predict he will prove a very valuable asset to the team.

Will be good to see some of these teams exploiting the flexi wings reigned in too next race which should help us close the gap along with the updates that Seidl said the team will continue to bring for the forseeable future. Only 2 points adrift of Ferrari after the last 2 races where they were clearly stronger than us, things don't look too bad. WIll be a good fight for 3rd and hopefully we can start extending a gap on Ferrari over the next few races.
Last edited by runningmanz on 07 Jun 2021, 10:01, edited 1 time in total.

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BMMR61
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Joined: 25 May 2021, 13:02
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Re: 2021 Mclaren F1 Team

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There’s little chat from the team about what issues are at the heart of lacklustre qualifying. For example is it a difficulty getting tyres into window or the somewhat difficult nature of the car’s handling? Leclerc’s Monaco apart, he seems to be getting two good laps in each session, both McLaren drivers struggling to get one, which would point to the tricky nature of the car. This weekend it looked like the team were sacrificing top speed for better race performance and tyre life but neither eventuates. The drivers struggled to get into the DRS position and even then rarely made the pass. Ferrari had at least as much speed as McLaren with less power and their predicted tyre problems failed to eventuate. The whole weekend seemed to defy any predictions. Same at Monaco but in reverse - predicted to be less competitive with slow speed corners.

JPower
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Joined: 23 Feb 2021, 05:06

Re: 2021 Mclaren F1 Team

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BMMR61 wrote:
07 Jun 2021, 04:03
There’s little chat from the team about what issues are at the heart of lacklustre qualifying. For example is it a difficulty getting tyres into window or the somewhat difficult nature of the car’s handling? Leclerc’s Monaco apart, he seems to be getting two good laps in each session, both McLaren drivers struggling to get one, which would point to the tricky nature of the car. This weekend it looked like the team were sacrificing top speed for better race performance and tyre life but neither eventuates. The drivers struggled to get into the DRS position and even then rarely made the pass. Ferrari had at least as much speed as McLaren with less power and their predicted tyre problems failed to eventuate. The whole weekend seemed to defy any predictions. Same at Monaco but in reverse - predicted to be less competitive with slow speed corners.
I think McLaren went with the safe setup mainly due to that tricky handling you're talking about. They probably felt that for handling, tire wear and S2 pace reasons, a medium DF setup was best. I don't blame them. The Mercedes PU allowed them room to do that.

Ferrari went with the low DF wing and while their top end speed was good, they suffered with bad lockups from both drivers during crucial parts of the race. The car looked like it was on ice at some points.

panchutay
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Joined: 28 Mar 2021, 03:45

Re: 2021 Mclaren F1 Team

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Is Paul Ricard better suited for MCL or FER?

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Mclarensenna
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Joined: 15 Oct 2018, 02:49

Re: 2021 Mclaren F1 Team

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Sanchit f1fan wrote:
06 Jun 2021, 16:30
Well Honestly Seeing How Vettel Has Been Able to get the Grasp of the Aston Martin I would be happier with Vettel in McLaren then Riccardo ATM and I wouldn't be Surprised if Mercedes didn't take Russell , McLaren Would Definitely Look At Him
Lets examine Vettels track record.

Ric drove Vettels 2009, 2010, and 2013 redbull in tests and always topped the time sheets and was quicker in short and long run pace. Silverstone 2013 he did not even fit in the seat properly, very uncomfortable and was instantly quicker than Vettel, right out of the box. I called it back then Ric will beat Vettel in 2014 and I was banned off forums and considered a troll as Vettel back then had just won 4xWDC at only 26, and being compared to Senna and to even suggest Ric could match him was a joke, but to suggest Ric will beat him was considered trolling and sacrilegious.

yet from race 1 to the last race in 2014 Ric did not just beat vettel he demolished him in a car Vettel had been in for 5 years.
Ric won all 3 races from behind Vettel on track which is no easy feat. You need to be massively faster to achieve the this repeatedly.

In Spa Ric overtook Vettel on track then proceeded to lap 1-2 seconds a lap quicker the entire race to come first while Vettel was 54 seconds behind down in 5th not even on the podium. Look at the lap times below for proof
http://en.mclarenf-1.com/index.php?page ... 927&graf=3

Vettel could not get anywhere near the maximum out of the 2014 redbull while Ric in his first race could and did it all year long with 3 wins to Vettels 0.
Heck even in Vettels 2013 exhaust blown diffuser Redbhull Ric got more out of it in 1 test session at silverstone while not even fitting in the seat. So imagine how much more Ric would have got out of the 2013 redbull after a few race weekend to get fully up to speed.


vettel in 2020 got 33 points and charles 99 points. Vettel could not adapt and get anywhere near the maximum out of the 2020 Ferrari car but leclerc could. Even in 2019 Leclerc (who was not the priority according to binotto) got 4 pole positions in a row a record not seen since schumacher. Vettel could not get the maximum out of even the 2019 car. But the 2020 car Vettel struggled even more to the maximum out of it

Not sure why anybody would say Vettel can get more out of a car than Leclerc or even Ric can based on all the facts and data i just mentioned.

Lando is a very fast driver, Stroll is not (Perez made him look like a backmarker most of 2020) so the benchmark is completely different. Lando is top tier or very close to it, Stroll is backmarker or bottom tier.

On top the Mclaren seems very tricky to drive.

To even suggest Vettel who is a much inferior driver to Ric which we know first hand from 2014 and 2013 even, could somehow be beating Lando whos driving the wheels off that Mclaren and doing a better job than Ric is doing is a joke i say!

This year with budget cap and focus on next year means Mclaren cannot afford to make too many changes to that car. Maybe Ric struggles all year. Who knows at this point. But please do not even suggest Vettel would be doing a better job at Mclaren than Ric is currently doing after the absolute beatdown Ric gave him as team mates. Which Leclerc also did. Vettel never got the maximum out of the redbull nor Ferrari which faster team mates proved. Lando would also be giving Vettel at the very least a similar if not bigger beatdown in that very tricky to drive Mclaren

Chicane
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Joined: 26 Jan 2016, 11:21

Re: 2021 Mclaren F1 Team

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Lando has made a big leap this season, very quick but definitely not reckless. People talk about Leclerc but i don't see Lando being inferior to anyone in current form. Lando has grown a pair this season and isn't shy of just sending it whenever there is an opportunity. Another thing being his consistency has risen considerably.

I don't want to go in to long arsed comparison with Leclerc but Lando is showing clear signs of improvement every time he steps in to the car. People talk about adaptation, let Leclerc drive this tricky McLaren and we will see his real adaptability. I am not saying Leclerc isn't good, he is bloody quick but till both of them have a go in the same car on the same day it's hard to say who is better OVERALL. Lando clearly makes fewer mistakes and his racecraft has taken a big leap.

If Ricciardo starts driving to his potential and starts putting Norris under pressure it will be great. It will push Norris to raise his game even further. Hopefully with the triple header being on conventional tracks with sufficient wiggle room, Ricciardo will start exploring the limits further.
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MrGapes
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Joined: 10 Mar 2021, 09:24

Re: 2021 Mclaren F1 Team

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We really need Daniel up there.. yes more points would be great, but we need him to push Lando, Lando is young and needs this competition to elevate him

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