Mercedes - the eternal debating abyss.

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TheBaverianBasterd
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Joined: 27 Oct 2012, 11:53

Re: Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 Team 2013

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Neno wrote:
With Ross's distinguished technical expertise, shouldn't Mercedes be fielding a worldbeater right now?
Well even Ross can't cure Honda DNA. He managed make temporary cure for 2009 season, but disease was back immediatly. :-k[/quote]

You do know it was Honda's hundreds of millions that built the championship winning Brawn GP right?

TheBaverianBasterd
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Joined: 27 Oct 2012, 11:53

Re: Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 Team 2013

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flmkane wrote:Obviously y'all didn't read the thread.

People said Mercedes sucked, Ross Brawn was stupid and there were too many people in the team.

Some people (including me) explained why they believed that to be untrue.

And then.... people ask us why Mercedes are no world champions, without looking back at the whole list of reasons a page or two back.

Hence the cycle repeats.

I'm sorry mods, I'll stop replying on threads like this. No point feeding the trolls
So anyway, I expect this team to be owned by Wolff and Lauda within a year or two maximum, likely supplied with Mercedes engines.

They can call Ross's departure from the team, "No Country For Old Men" or perhaps, "White Men Can't Jump"?

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GitanesBlondes
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Joined: 30 Jul 2013, 20:16

Re: Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 Team 2013

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marcush. wrote:the tyre we see now is a consequence of the tyre test Mercedes did for Pirelli .... .
If Mercedes had fixed their rear tire wear issues through normal available means, I would have been quite happy with what they've been doing since Monaco. It's so obvious this was a test that could only benefit Mercedes in the long run. Of course what's not entirely clear to me is why Red Bull Racing said they had a chance to participate in the Barcelona test, yet declined to do so. Given how much effort the team puts in with trying to find some sort of new advantage, it strikes me as a bit odd they wouldn't participate in a test that would have given them a tremendous advantage.

I don't believe that this test was guaranteed to improve the W04 as it came down to Pirelli getting the proper data from the Barcelona test as is now obvious that they did.

The timing of the announcement of the return of Formula 1 to Zeltweg could have been coincidental, yet the lack of crying from Dr. Marko strikes me as a bit peculiar.
"I don't want to make friends with anybody. I don't give a sh*t for fame. I just want to win." -Nelson Piquet

holeindalip
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Joined: 11 Jun 2013, 01:58
Location: Decatur,IL USA

Re: Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 Team 2013

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Mika1 wrote:
holeindalip wrote:I don't understand ?? Its a 2012 kevlar belt with the 2013 rubber that's it. Obviously this has helped Mercedes, McLaren and Williams. Red bull, lotus seem to be exactly where they were before force India and Ferrari are still struggling to put heat in the tires as they were before
A bit too early to judge, high temps in Hungary and a lot of slow corners, we will know more after Spa and Monza.

Yes I agree its still early but I'm sick of hearing all these conspiracy theories

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GitanesBlondes
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Joined: 30 Jul 2013, 20:16

Re: Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 Team 2013

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FoxHound wrote:Actually ... The current tyre is a consequence of Pirelli tyres failing at silverstone and a couple other races.
That Mercedes tested it is no reason why it's currently being used, lets at least get the fact right there.

Secondly what would Marko say? Hamilton won Hungary as much as the W04 did, dispatching cars ahead of him quicker and at more critical times than his opponents.
Any criticism of the victory would came across as exactly what it is... Sour grapes.
Marko comments quite forcefully on a lot of inconsequential matters...yet on a consequential matter he has little to say? I've got some Mercedes AMG Petronas merchandise in my closet, so it's not sour grapes as you are claiming.

For everyone else so quick to dismiss the game is rigged, can you explain to me why you would trust a man who has taken billions out of F1 for his own personal gain by way of having his friend sell him the commercial rights for 100 years?
"I don't want to make friends with anybody. I don't give a sh*t for fame. I just want to win." -Nelson Piquet

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dans79
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Joined: 03 Mar 2013, 19:33
Location: USA

Re: Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 Team 2013

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GitanesBlondes wrote:
FoxHound wrote: For everyone else so quick to dismiss the game is rigged, can you explain to me why you would trust a man who has taken billions out of F1 for his own personal gain by way of having his friend sell him the commercial rights for 100 years?
Simple, way to many people would have to be in the loop for it to work. With the number of people required to pull something like that off, someone would slip up and spill the beans, or some one with a vendetta would do it deliberately.
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SaveMeHollywood
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Joined: 06 Oct 2012, 03:29

Re: Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 Team 2013

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I've been saying since 2010 that only an exploit around the Testing Ban would allow this team to get ahead.

Here's food for thought. The whole grid learned about ONE test. Are we sure that was the only one? :twisted:

A few months ago, I opined that Hamilton would be happy to just "sell apparel" and that Mercedes making a fast car would be a bonus. In a way, I'm happy to be proven wrong and seeing Hamilton and Merc being competitive.

But at the same time... I look at this whole Test-Gate saga and Merc's sudden run in form with a smile thinking: "I told you so".

Oh the irony if it was still MSC in that winning car now, complete with Test-Gate! :mrgreen:

P.S.: Oh.. I'm not complaining. Far from it. In Formula One, you do ANYTHING to win.
ANYTHING.

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GitanesBlondes
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Re: Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 Team 2013

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dans79 wrote:
GitanesBlondes wrote:
FoxHound wrote: For everyone else so quick to dismiss the game is rigged, can you explain to me why you would trust a man who has taken billions out of F1 for his own personal gain by way of having his friend sell him the commercial rights for 100 years?
Simple, way to many people would have to be in the loop for it to work. With the number of people required to pull something like that off, someone would slip up and spill the beans, or some one with a vendetta would do it deliberately.
Please bear with me for a moment here.

You mean like how the NSA's surveillance program in the USA went completely undetected even with all the people in the loop that were? I mean the secret is out now, but were it not for the adventures of Edward Snowden, the entire thing would still have remained unknown.

Where politics are involved, it's amazing how many things stay hidden even in the 21st century with the whole "information is free" mentality that has become as pervasive as it has. I'd wager for every one person who does a massive leak of information there are hundreds more with access to the same thing, who choose to do nothing. Why? Because it isn't worth giving up the relative comfort and security of their own daily lives. Say your dream has always been to work in Formula One at whatever level, and you spend your entire life working to get there, are you really going to want to give up all of that just to leak some piece of information, that if traced back to you will likely ruin your professional life? Sure such a person would be a hero to me, and a number of others, but the domino effect from that would be the sort that would effectively end any chance of further career at all levels of any race series. In other words, your career choices suddenly become whittled down to jack and ---, and jack just left town.

My point is that people will not defy Ecclestone because for as long as he holds the keys to the kingdom of riches, he is the final arbiter on everything.

For those who still raise their eyebrow and snicker at the notion of conspiracy theories, I do have a case in point that should always serve as a reminder for what happens to those who defy the wishes of those in power within F1.

Always remember what ultimately happened to Ken Tyrrell in 1984. He was sandbagged on trumped up charges and kicked out of the championship that year since he was the lone hold out blocking an increase in onboard fuel capacity for the 1985 season. The whole thing was one of the more disgraceful episodes in F1 history as the removal of his vote was in my estimation what ultimately put the final nail in the coffin for Tyrrell. There was a keen interest in attracting the support of auto manufacturers with the turbo era, and just say had Ken managed to keep the DFV Cosworth and the fuel tank size down, you would have seen a hell of a 1985 season from Tyrrell Racing. However the auto manufacturers would have not been all that interested in seeing their turbo-charged engines getting bludgeoned by at that time a 18 year old engine that didn't suck fuel down like no tomorrow.

Bernie considers the Silver Arrows to be as indispensable as the Scuderia and McLaren nowadays, so if you or anyone else continues question why I think the game was rigged, F1's sordid past gives a good indication of that.
"I don't want to make friends with anybody. I don't give a sh*t for fame. I just want to win." -Nelson Piquet

myurr
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Joined: 20 Mar 2008, 21:58

Re: Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 Team 2013

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SaveMeHollywood wrote:Here's food for thought. The whole grid learned about ONE test. Are we sure that was the only one? :twisted:
It wasn't a secret test, Pirelli shared the tyre data with all the teams as they do with all tyre tests (as far as I'm aware).

xpensive
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Re: Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 Team 2013

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@GitanesBlondes; Can you begin to imagine CW's honest memoirs?
"I spent most of my money on wine and women...I wasted the rest"

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GitanesBlondes
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Joined: 30 Jul 2013, 20:16

Re: Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 Team 2013

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xpensive wrote:@GitanesBlondes; Can you begin to imagine CW's honest memoirs?
That would be perhaps the greatest tell-all book in sports history.
"I don't want to make friends with anybody. I don't give a sh*t for fame. I just want to win." -Nelson Piquet

xpensive
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Joined: 22 Nov 2008, 18:06
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Re: Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 Team 2013

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GitanesBlondes wrote:
xpensive wrote:@GitanesBlondes; Can you begin to imagine CW's honest memoirs?
That would be perhaps the greatest tell-all book in sports history.
From Benetton's frontwings, through Ferrari's wide bargeboards, to secret tiretests, some read indeed, zapruder-film level?
"I spent most of my money on wine and women...I wasted the rest"

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GitanesBlondes
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Joined: 30 Jul 2013, 20:16

Re: Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 Team 2013

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xpensive wrote:
GitanesBlondes wrote:
xpensive wrote:@GitanesBlondes; Can you begin to imagine CW's honest memoirs?
That would be perhaps the greatest tell-all book in sports history.
From Benetton's frontwings, through Ferrari's wide bargeboards, to secret tiretests, some read indeed, zapruder-film level?
I'd have to think it'd read like a JFK assassination reveal.

Charlie is an odd guy with all of the stuff he let happen under his watch. Or better yet, the times when he would say something was legal, only to get overruled by someone upstairs.

I don't think he expected anyone to find out about that Barcelona test. It doesn't really matter though as Pirelli got all of the data right, and look at things now.
"I don't want to make friends with anybody. I don't give a sh*t for fame. I just want to win." -Nelson Piquet

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