Belgian GP 2005

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Scuderia_Russ
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Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2004 9:24 pm
Location: Motorsport Valley, England.

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manchild wrote:Sorry about Jenson…(don’t start me pointing out typos in your news) :wink:

CAMPEÓN DEL MUNDO!!!

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How badly is my kid gonna get forced into racing to live out my dreams!!... :lol:
"Whether you think you can or can't, either way you are right."
-Henry Ford-

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f1.redbaron
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Joined: Sun Jul 31, 2005 10:29 pm

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Scuderia_Russ wrote: How badly is my kid gonna get forced into racing to live out my dreams!!... :lol:
I know! I don't have any kids yet, but when I do get them, he/they will learn how to drive before they get potty trained.

manchild
manchild
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Scuderia_Russ wrote:How badly is my kid gonna get forced into racing to live out my dreams!!... :lol:
Oh c’mon guys... I hope these comments are just jokes.

Living out parent’s dreams is the worse thing for a kid no matter what the dreams are. Every kid is a future person with his own characteristics and parents who can't accept differences in personality between them and their kids are bad parents (abusive).

I mean during my marshalling years I’ve seen so many ugly scenes when it matters idiotic parents forcing their kids to race by any means. Some of them should really be institutionalized…

For example, it is a race day and an obviously abusive father yells like maniac and threatens his teenage daughter in front of the other competitors and the crowd… everyone is watching, she is in tears - a young girl almost a woman and that idiot treats her like just as if he found that she is using drugs - only because she stalled karting or something like that!

Sometimes I really wanted to shove red flag (or whole set) up such moron’s… where the sun doesn’t shine!!!

Any physiologist will tell you that such behavior and public humiliation can only bring bad things for child’s development and problems in adult life.

Such people are so frustrated and far from acceptable parenting. They don’t think at all about the kid as a person in development but only as figure representing their own success or failure. They often remind on owners of racing horses which are in fact battling each other via their children. Terrible!

There are some nice parents too with whole families spending weekends in the motorhome, just living it... accepting failures with dignity and without taking it out on the kids. Unfortunately, I think that they are in minority.

A child should be given a try and observed. Kids often do some things just to please their parents or because they fear them and if that is the case kid shouldn’t be pushed into it. Child who doesn’t like it will never become successful driver but for sure it will become person with emotional problems.

It takes a lot of funding just to put kid trough several seasons in order to analyze if it has talent or not. When it proves that it has no talent or that puberty has stopped kids interest for racing some of the parents simply can’t accept that they lost a lot of money or that their kid if slower than other kids.

So, if you’re going into this be prepped to loose and take it with dignity.

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Scuderia_Russ
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Give me some credit Manchild :roll:
"Whether you think you can or can't, either way you are right."
-Henry Ford-

manchild
manchild
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Scuderia_Russ wrote:Give me some credit Manchild :roll:
I wrote “I hope these comments are just jokes” believing that you two were only spoofing (giving you some credit :wink: ).

What followed as description of “living out parent’s dreams” from what I’ve seen was just my babbling about how ugly it can become.

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Scuderia_Russ
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I couldn't really expand earlier because I had to go out but what I should have added to my earlier post is that I consider my brother and I to have been very lucky when we were growing up in as much as my mum and dad never forced us to do anything! We were brought up to be responsible enough to make our own decisions and live by our own actions. I really felt sorry for the kids in school that were forced into history lessons, business studies etc. because that's what their parents had decided to be best for them, when they really didn't want to be there and were being pushed to the extent that it made them resentful.
My parents have always said that they will stand by me whatever decisions I make/ have made in my life,(even when I went out with a 37 yr old when I was 18 for a few years but that's another story :wink: ) and they always back me up 100%, as long as i'm sensible and happy, they are happy for me.
I left school at sixteen as I had grew dissolutioned with schooling mainly because I didn't know what I wanted to do when I left! I thought I wanted to work and at that moment in time didn't want to go to college.
Even though I'm 23 I've now started college and still studying basic Mech Eng from home even though it was seven years since I had left full time education. Now i'm older I seem to really enjooy learning where as when I was a nipper I found it to be quite a chore. Like I said, when I left school I had my parents full support...
Any way that's my ramble over... just wanted to say there's nothing worse than a kid being forced to do something they done want!
"Whether you think you can or can't, either way you are right."
-Henry Ford-

manchild
manchild
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Scuderia_Russ wrote:...I left school at sixteen...
Wish I had too :cry:

I also envy you on supportive parents... :(

BTW, if there was a competition in off-topic replies we could pick a winning team here :wink:

West
West
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If my kid doesn't kart, he/she isn't my kid anymore, and I'll just do it myself

As for encouragment, I told my mom I wanted to major in Econ, after feeling like sh*t doing computer programming, but she yelled at me and I continued w/ Mechanical Engineering. Gon graduate end of the year
Bring back wider rear wings, V10s, and tobacco advertisements

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f1.redbaron
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Manchild,

Just as Scuderia_Russ' parents, my parents, though very strict, gave me plenty of lattitude. One day, while I was still in high school, I told them that I had decided what to do in life. As they listened, looking at them, I knew that they were against it. Why? Because this profession did not require a university degree - just a simple college diploma. For the next two years, they had spent an infinate number of hours begging me not to go that way. I didn't listen. Not because I wanted to rebel - it was because I thought that I was the smartest person in the world. I thought that they had no idea what they were talking about. So, all the time I had spent studying while in high school was the time I wasted (or, so I thought), and so were the marks followed (again, so I thought).

Then came a reality check. I had finished the program, but I knew that I had made a mistake well before it was over. Why? Because I chose a profession that too many jobless candidated. And since the industry took turn for the worse, those who had jobs, had all of a sudden found themselves waiting in line at the unemployment centre (er, employment centre, sorry!).

Luckly for me, my dad had helped me get a job, which, though ---*y, paid well. Actually the pay is enough to make most university graduates green with envy. Right now, I'm still in my early 20's and I have the opportunity to see and do things most people can't even dream about. While my high school friends with their university degrees take busses to their barely-above-the-minimum-wage jobs, I park my ass in a luxury sedan and drive myself to work.

And you know what...I would gladly give all that up to go back for a degree in engineering. Why? Because being ambitious, I know that I won't be happy with the position I currently have (from which it is next to impossible to advance). Also, I don't like that I have surrounded myself with people who find any subject other than hockey and fantasy football a stretch of their mental and intellectual resources...people who, while some of the most sincere and down-to-earth, find it impossibe to go 2 sentences without using the word "---" (or various forms of it). That is why I had already made a decision to return to school. So, I guess all those hours I had spend studying while in high school were not a waste after all :wink:

So, in closing, manchild, will I force my kid into karting? Absolutely! Will I force him to stay if he doesn't like it? NO! Career choice will be his (or hers), however, it will have to be the one that opens lots of doors.

I hope I didn't offend anybody with my views.

manchild
manchild
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f1.redbaron wrote: So, in closing, manchild, will I force my kid into karting? Absolutely! Will I force him to stay if he doesn't like it? NO! Career choice will be his (or hers), however, it will have to be the one that opens lots of doors.
Ok, just... you used term "force" twice in sort of… different purpose. I mean, you wanted to say that you'd give your kid a chance to drive karting without forcing it if it doesn't like it, right? That first “forcing” sounds a bit rough...

Anyway, even though I'm in my early 30s and don't have any children, I'd dare to say that thinking about what would someone do when after becoming a parent and what emotions and views would follow probably wouldn't be the same. Being a parent is a big issue and talking about it without experiencing it could prove completely different from what it can bring.

What I’m trying to say is that since you’re in your early ‘20s you shouldn’t premeditate something and issues surrounding it because people change very much from 20s to 30s… I have to say that true experience of the surrounding world begins in early-mid ‘20s – sort of shaking of delusional crap learned in school and society clichés. And just as you said it that goes for people with more interests and skills than watching sports on TV and drinking beer (they are intellectually DONE at 15).

Hope you get my point which isn’t “smartassing” but sort of “take it easy and step by step” kind of friendly advice.

Supportive parents are the thing I missed most in life. They were not only non-supportive and indifferent (which is already awful) but they were jealous on my capabilities, constantly trying to get me down to their mediocrity level (birth, eat, sleep, school, work, marriage, children, death).

Anything out of the pattern behavior and interest they’ve considers as waste of time and openly criticized it as if their way of life has any meaning except waiting for death while repeating pointless routine without searching for meaning of life and experiencing life in persons own way, according to personality. Conservative parents vs. open-minded child is a very bad thing (for a child).

For example.. I know --- about CFD but if I was CFD genius they’d suggest – “don’t post to CFD forum post only to general chat”... :roll:

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f1.redbaron
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I, kind of, figured that the word "force" will stick out, and I'm sorry to tell you that I meant it exactly the way I wrote it. I don't mean by using physical force, no, but there are other ways of getting somebody to do something.

I still remember my dad asking me to watch F1 with him. My response was that I was not interested in watching cars go around in circles. But after giving it a chance, I had, suddenly, found myself in love with this sport. He didn't force me to watch it in any way...but had he, I would've known more about the sport than I do now. Had he done that, maybe I would start racing go karts a few years earlier. And the moments spent in a go kart are some of the happiest ones during that week.

What I'm trying to say is that the child doesn't always know best. My intention, as a partent, will be to introduce him to a wide variety of options. I intend to get the kid to try as many things as possible. Only then will I be happy knowing that he/she had every opportunity in life to succeed.

And, believe me, I agree with what you said it being too early for me to think about these kinds of things. But then again, when I wake up at 5:30AM every day to get ready for a job I don't like, that is when I promise myself that my kid(s) will not be like that. Furthermore, when you have 6-7 hrs/day to yourself (just the type of job), you kind of tend to think a lot in advance...

Cheers

manchild
manchild
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Force in a form of constant pressure regardless on response is what I dislike.

Take for example Fernando’s case. His dad built a karting for his older sister, she didn’t like it but Fernando did. That is by my opinion a way to go – buy or build a karting and suggest it to kids, offer it and see what happens.

I support the educational-career picking methods where the kid is observed and guided according to its interest. Having one idea and pressuring kid with it can work but it can also prove as catastrophic. What I’m trying to say is that you can’t know in advance what your kid will be talented for and forcing for example kid talented for music to drive karting would be bad.

In a nutshell parents must understand that they are raising not “their baby” of “their son or daughter” but one new person who can turn out to be very different from them. Kid that is forced to inherit way of life or profession of its parents regardless whether it likes that, fits to that etc. is abused kid.

I hope you won’t get this wrong but if you are basing your idea to make better life for your kid by forcing it into something you have premeditated based on your own dislike to getting up 5:30, having little time etc. than you are already making it hard for this kid – before it was born. Kid can be born when you decide and why not than try a bit calculating, waiting, planning… finally why have a kid at all of you are certain that its life will be hard – based on that you’ll force kid into something that will (by your opinion) spare your kid from kind of you dislike?

If someone isn’t even born and you know that after its birth hard life will follow, wouldn’t it than be more humanistic to adopt an orphan whose life is already hard and try to make it better rather than to give birth to another kid knowing that its life will be hard and than even force it to do things simply because you find them to be a cure to your present frustrations as the main guidance trough the life?

You won’t be able to shake off whatever is making you feel bad or the things you regret by changing the situations for your kid in a way not to resemble to things you found as obstacle in life.

This was a bit philosophy on my own; please in mind have my best intentions regardless how what I wrote might sound.

I know it may be a bit harsh but having a kid is not a game and kid is not a toy, so I’m writing this concerned for how kids are brought up in general not only based on karting-to-F1 wannabe.

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f1.redbaron
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Before you start apologizing (at least to me), keep in mind that this is a forum where 1000 people will have 1000 different views on the same topic. I'm fully aware of that, so there is no need to apologize (again, at least not to me).

Like I said before, I agree with a lot of things you said. Also, while I agree that thinking about kids is a bit premature, when you consider that I'm surrounded with people who have already started their families, you can't help but think about it. Add to that the fact that I've been seeing the same girl for several years, and you should be able to understand why I tend to think about that subject so much in advance. (That's about as much as I'm willing to say about that. Sorry, but I don't really like to reveal my personal things to anybody, much less to somebody (nothing personal) over the internet.)

As far as parenting goes, again, I agree that kids should be supported and not forced to do anything they don't want, but then again, there are limits to how much slack they should get. I wouldn't like to see my kids locking themselves in their bedrooms as they make pipebombs which they'll use on their fellow students just because that makes them happy(btw, I realize that I'm going a little overboard).

You think we've gone too far with this subject?

manchild
manchild
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f1.redbaron wrote:You think we've gone too far with this subject?
As usual... :wink:

manchild
manchild
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Principessa wrote:Back to pictures of F1 drivers :wink: (halfnaked of course :P )
Katherine Legge? :lol: