AJI wrote: ↑
Wed Apr 25, 2018 11:00 pm
Manoah2u wrote: ↑
Wed Apr 25, 2018 9:07 pm
I'll need to stay below 10kW a day to avoid getting fines or actually recieving (hefty) taxes.
Is that 10kW a day for panels or storage or both? If you're 100% off the grid there's no way they can tell how much storage you have, but they can estimate how much you can collect via aerial photography.
that's what confuses me too, but info is too scarce too make sense of for me atleast.
In any case though - from what i've read atleast - you're oblidged to 'return' any excess of power generated
to the grid, though you won't get compensation for that. Obviously, you need to be actually 'connected' to
the grid for that to happen. What i don't know however if that that happens from 10kW+ or less even.
As for living off grid, indeed they can't tell, only estimate. Unless - and this i haven't figured out properly yet -
they base their information on the data you are mandated to hand to them by the administration required to
send to the gov'ment for owning or placing solar power equipment.
If you are connected to the grid, you're obviously using or making an impact on the infrastructure. Hence their defense that you need to pay extra taxes even though you're not fully using the grid's power supply.
Personally - but that's my personal interpretation - i am of opinion that if you are disconnected from the grid,
then you are not making an impact on the infrastructure. Offcourse we can only talk about the infrastructure of power supply and/or usage. Water supply for example and Gas usage is a total different story alltogether.
But, again, in my opinion, if you are not connected to the grid - disconnected - then you make no impact on the infrastructure and as such, i do not personally believe you are oblidged or that the government is in the position to mandate anything or tax you anything over your own way of providing energy.
For example, i know of some buildings/houses that are in mountaineous areas in Spain, that literally have no connection to the electricity grid, or water grid for that matter. First and foremost because there literally is no supply. These houses are provided their heating through a fireplace running on wood, for example. Also through use of bottles of gas. lighting through candles. and water through a private well and a huge water tank that stores rain water, and buying bottled water in the supermarkets.
there is no way the government can tax or fine these people, who are literally living off-grid. Obviously, everybody has to pay taxes, but that's another story.
So, likewise, i assume that if you are disconnected from the grid, you cannot be fined or taxed. but again, i don't make or invent the rules. i've seen suggestions or even applications where there's a 'protection' installed that doesn't allow excess of power to be 'returned' to the grid. if your personal power supply (solar power) exceeds that of the current used by appliances and the storage capability of batteries, then a relay switch will interrupt the current from the solar power supply and hence no excess can be generated.
likewise, one can 'easily' install a 10kW 'kill switch' which simply stops power supply from solar panels if that number is reached, and then you would need to run on battery stored energy.
for example, you might have 4 solar panels each generating 275 Wp (peak watts), which would combined supply you with 1.1 kW (per hour). If the sun would shine for 9 hours straight during the day, and everything would work maxed out, you'd be supplied with 9.9 kW total during the time the sun shines. If i'm correct you should calculate a 90% realistic power supply (without wearing down), even with rather positive estimates, so you'd end up with 8.91 kW anyway ( or, 8910 watts). so with that amount of supply, one would, during sunlight, charge the batteries, aswell as provide energy to the appliances in use during the same time.
It probably thus would be better to have a 5th solar panel installed, 5 (panels) x 275 (wattpeaks) x 0,9 (efficiency) x 8 solar hours tops = 9.9 kw, or 9900 watts. obviously this is the total generated amount of watts, not the amount of watts provided in 1 hour for example. in other words, there is 9900 watts available to be consumed.
from those 9900 watts, again, you'd obviously need to supply the batteries, aswell as the consuming appliances during the day. so one (me) should calculate the total amount all the appliances would consume, and at which hours they would consume, and how much time and energy it takes for the batteries to be fully charged.
in a 'perfect' situation, i would need to make sure the solar panels are both able to charge the batteries, aswell as the appliances, to a solar power supply limit of 10kW, yet make sure i never ever reach that amount of power need, so i can actually have an excess of battery supply so if the sun doesn't shine, is blocked, or/and during winter period, i don't run into power shortage (offcourse an option would be a diesel generator).
As far as i'm understanding, the treshold is for 10kW solar power. I don't see how battery supply would be included in that, as quite frankly, if you are connected to the grid, AND have a battery supply, and charge your batteries with gridpower, there is not a law or tax against that. so honestly, i think that if you could have plenty of batteries available, and you could manage to 'daily' charge those batteries with 10kW max, and theoretically only consume about 3 to 5 kw a day, you would be able to 'store' 7 to 5 kw a day extra in your batteries, a day.
which again, brings me back to the batteries, and which is why i want to see how much 'power' can be stored in the batteries, and how much actual 'power' they can supply.
so perhaps my right question would then be :
what battery power (volts, amps, and all that is needed to know) would i need to simultaneously use all my home appliances together :
- washing machine ( saw a eco Zanussi that runs on 800 watts, buying price only 300 euros)
- salora 32" Led TV + soundbar ( 30 watts + 30 watts = 60 watts )
- AEG table-sized refrigerator ( 7 watts with 70 watts peak )
- Exquisit freezer table model ( 11 wats with 90 watts peak )
- ECO fan (40 watts)
- HP 17 inch laptop (45 watts)
- ECO coffee machine (450 watts)
- Microwave (600 watts)
i haven't been able to find actual information about A++ energy efficient central heating systems. i've seen very, very economic ones but i can't find just how much they use in real-time, only annual usage and that is open to a lot of interpretation. same would go for airconditioning, but i've read operating consumption is about 1kWh, but that remains something optional. also swimming pool water pump and filters, though i've found very economic ones, i still need to find the actualy real-time consumption of that, so i'll need to keep those out.
same goes for ovens.
i'm planning to buy gas bottles for the stove.
so that would make estimated power consumption - if all is on together - 2.1 kW on peak power.
that's rather a hefty amount, especially concidering a microwave runs for a few minutes tops, same for a coffee machine even though those are used more regularly ( i drink a good amount of coffee ), and a washing machine is on only during about 1,5 hours tops each cycle. also, both refrigerator and freezer both are calculated peak watt usage, but that also only is during momentary cooling neccesity, outside that, they run mostly on 7 and 11 watts.
nevertheless, if all is running at the same time (i'd like that possibility anyway), that means 2.1 kW is used.
but again, only for about an hour.
if i'd look into non-peak power, then i would be seeing a figure of about 120 to 200 watts, which is offcourse peanuts. (thanks to energy-efficient technology!). if those would be on for a full day it would be a lot, even concidering the fridge etc, tv and laptops never are on all day long.
ok, that is too without lighting, but those are leds anyway. i've got leds of 2 watts that are mood lighting, and a couple of 3 watt very bright leds that provide actual lighting if needed. let's say i've got 8 of those on at the very same time, then i'm running more or less 24 watts tops, so not really a big deal, and if those would be on for 12 hours a day it would be rather long. so so let's say 300 watts tops for a whole day.
so i might concider that a figure between 3 and 4 kW a day - again, with very economic appliances - is reasonable, but let's add some space and make it 5kW.
now that, offcourse still, is without battery charging. some random google searches for a 100 amps battery of 12 volts with 8 amps charging would result in the need of about 1,7 kwh of power usage, during 13 hours charging time. i still thoroughly have to calculate the above, but let's say thus for 2 batteries, one would need 3,4 or 3,5 kW. i might concider that i'd prefer to have the battery charged in half that time tops, so let's say 7 kW's needed to charge the batteries. that then would make the total about 12 kW's of consumption, and thus would not provide enough, i'd have a minimal defecit of 2 kW of power supply like that.
but again, i might be completely off in my calculations. especially with the batteries and the efficiency of charging those.