Mercedes changes 2020 livery in fight against racism

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RZS10
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Re: [ 2020 ] AMG Mercedes F1 Team - Mercedes

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Looks better than silver but it's interesting that they're willing to give up the 'silver arrow' theme for some pandering/PR

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Re: [ 2020 ] AMG Mercedes F1 Team - Mercedes

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RZS10 wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 1:09 pm
Looks better than silver but it's interesting that they're willing to give up the 'silver arrow' theme for some pandering/PR
Pandering?

Wow.
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Re: [ 2020 ] AMG Mercedes F1 Team - Mercedes

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Jolle wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 11:29 am
Looks like Mercedes single handed made a place for F1 in the ever changing world. Inclusive, high tech, environmental and succesfull . Such a contrast to Bernies words last week.

Plus, looking cool while doing it.
Fully agree 👌

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Re: [ 2020 ] AMG Mercedes F1 Team - Mercedes

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Just_a_fan wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 1:11 pm
RZS10 wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 1:09 pm
Looks better than silver but it's interesting that they're willing to give up the 'silver arrow' theme for some pandering/PR
Pandering?

Wow.
The hate is so entrenched, for so long that it's seen as normal.
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RZS10
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Re: [ 2020 ] AMG Mercedes F1 Team - Mercedes

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Well it's the same as all those companies changing their twitter brand images to a rainbow coloured logo for a month in order to sell you some ice cream - 'racism' is the hot topic de jeur so they show their commitment to fighting it with a livery change (for a year, well rather half a year) and put some big words into a PR piece about how they want to change their corporate culture. They never would have even considered any such thing if it wasn't in line with the current 'climate' regarding the issue and/or if Hamilton wasn't their driver ... so yea ... nothing to do with 'hate' , just a calm observation.
We'll see whether this 'diversity and inclusion' program will do anything, would be cool if it did but technically european/UK law is stopping them from any workplace/hiring discrimination and they'd be stupid if they wouldn't already hire all the talent from 'minority ethnic groups' they can find if they're good enough to work in F1.

And as i wrote already ... the black livery looks better than the silver (at least in that one picture, we'll see how it looks on track) i already thought it was a shame that Renault didn't stick with the all black.

Oh and just to be clear, i used that term not because i disagree with the message or disapprove of the idea behind that program ... it's just that usually such things end up being nothing more than empty words or gestures.

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Hail22
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Re: [ 2020 ] AMG Mercedes F1 Team - Mercedes

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There's a reason why Bernie pushed so hard to keep politics out of Formula 1, if no one can see it now you'll see it sooner or later.

If people gave a hoot about minorities then why isn't there such a giant hubub going on about the constant abuse, stripping of freedoms of Bangladeshi, Indian and Filipino migrants in the UAE, Middle east as a whole?

What about the slave trade occurring in the stateless nation that is Libya? What about the murder of countless hundreds of Gay, Lesbian or non-conforming muslims in middle Eastern nations who are thrown off the top of buildings? What about the stoning and mistreatment of women in Pakistan?

What I'm getting at here is that this "message" that Mercedes-Benz is displaying is merely that of following a "trend" in order to get a few "virtue" signal points, in the grand scheme of things and in all honesty, they don't really care about the real issues this world faces...they're in it purely for the money and you all know that and that's what big business does, follow the money.

So let's be mature and intelligent about this and see it for what it is...a PR stunt, pure and simple.

P.S I like the Black livery :wink:
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Re: [ 2020 ] AMG Mercedes F1 Team - Mercedes

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Hail22 wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 2:24 pm
There's a reason why Bernie pushed so hard to keep politics out of Formula 1, if no one can see it now you'll see it sooner or later.

If people gave a hoot about minorities then why isn't there such a giant hubub going on about the constant abuse, stripping of freedoms of Bangladeshi, Indian and Filipino migrants in the UAE, Middle east as a whole?

What about the slave trade occurring in the stateless nation that is Libya? What about the murder of countless hundreds of Gay, Lesbian or non-conforming muslims in middle Eastern nations who are thrown off the top of buildings? What about the stoning and mistreatment of women in Pakistan?

What I'm getting at here is that this "message" that Mercedes-Benz is displaying is merely that of following a "trend" in order to get a few "virtue" signal points, in the grand scheme of things and in all honesty, they don't really care about the real issues this world faces...they're in it purely for the money and you all know that and that's what big business does, follow the money.

So let's be mature and intelligent about this and see it for what it is...a PR stunt, pure and simple.

P.S I like the Black livery :wink:
I cannot judge what the real motivations are behind Mercedes' livery change, on whether or not it is a sincere gesture or pandering. What I care about is that they get the message across which I think this will do well enough.

I think the past few weeks has made the issues of racism much more visible to the world. I don't have much exposure to the issues of racism before (mostly because of where I am), but I learned a lot from these past few weeks. The more that message can be spread around the world, the better IMO.

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Phil
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Re: [ 2020 ] AMG Mercedes F1 Team - Mercedes

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I miss / prefer the silver livery :P
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TAG
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Re: [ 2020 ] AMG Mercedes F1 Team - Mercedes

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RZS10 wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 2:13 pm
Oh and just to be clear, i used that term not because i disagree with the message or disapprove of the idea behind that program ... it's just that usually such things end up being nothing more than empty words or gestures.
And why do they end up with nothing more than empty words or gestures?

So we want change we must demand it because it won't ever be offered freely. Instead of defaulting to cynicism and meaningless commentary? I've brought up the racism topic many a time on this forum and how America is a toxic place but unless it hits people square in the face, it doesn't exist.

The alternative is what? Ecclestone?
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RZS10
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Re: [ 2020 ] AMG Mercedes F1 Team - Mercedes

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Phil wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 2:35 pm
I miss / prefer the silver livery :P
It'll be back for 2021 just like all the twitter avis will switch back to normal on Wednesday ;)

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Re: [ 2020 ] AMG Mercedes F1 Team - Mercedes

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Hail22 wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 2:24 pm
There's a reason why Bernie pushed so hard to keep politics out of Formula 1, if no one can see it now you'll see it sooner or later.

If people gave a hoot about minorities then why isn't there such a giant hubub going on about the constant abuse, stripping of freedoms of Bangladeshi, Indian and Filipino migrants in the UAE, Middle east as a whole?

What about the slave trade occurring in the stateless nation that is Libya? What about the murder of countless hundreds of Gay, Lesbian or non-conforming muslims in middle Eastern nations who are thrown off the top of buildings? What about the stoning and mistreatment of women in Pakistan?

What I'm getting at here is that this "message" that Mercedes-Benz is displaying is merely that of following a "trend" in order to get a few "virtue" signal points, in the grand scheme of things and in all honesty, they don't really care about the real issues this world faces...they're in it purely for the money and you all know that and that's what big business does, follow the money.

So let's be mature and intelligent about this and see it for what it is...a PR stunt, pure and simple.

P.S I like the Black livery :wink:
I read these comments a lot. “Yes but look at those wrong things there”. Yes. There are a lot of wrongs in the world and trying to be better at one helps. To be better doesn’t mean you have to fight every cause at once.

As for this being just a PR stunt, it doesn’t feel like that to me. Mercedes also revealed that their own diversity is only at 3% and that they are going to change. In marketing this would be suicide. They are basically saying, we’re doing a bad job. Also, at the moment, a lot of brands are a bit apolitical still, especially ones marketed towards a more wealthy consumer base (like Mercedes), for them to come out stonger then for instance Ben&Jerry’s is quite a milestone (even tough B&J’s parent company just announced that they will not pay for adds on Facebook anymore because of the failing fact checking with politics).

If a brand ones used to demonstrate German facsism during the 30’s can change its profile with image, words and actions, a lot is possible.

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Re: [ 2020 ] AMG Mercedes F1 Team - Mercedes

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RZS10 wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 2:43 pm
Phil wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 2:35 pm
I miss / prefer the silver livery :P
It'll be back for 2021 just like all the twitter avis will switch back to normal on Wednesday ;)
If you have read what the team has released, you would understand that it is not until "wednesday" they are doing this.

The team has revealed that it listened to the perspectives of its team members to learn and to reflect on the structure of the organisation. In Mercedes’ organisation, just three per cent of the workforce identify as belonging to minority ethnic groups and only 12% of employees are women, The team has promised that it will find new approaches to attract talent from many areas of society.

Apart from switching to the all-black livery, the call to ‘End Racism’ will feature on the halo of both cars, and the united F1 initiative #WeRaceAsOne will be featured on the mirrors of the W11.

The team has also announced that it will introduce a Diversity and Inclusion programme before the end of the season. The initiative will have different aims, including, „listen to and raise the awareness of our team members; forensic analysis of our recruitment and development processes; collaboration with the sport’s key stakeholders to improve accessibility to our sport; and targeted education initiatives to encourage and support talented people from under-represented backgrounds who aspire to reach F1,” read the statement.

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RZS10
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Re: [ 2020 ] AMG Mercedes F1 Team - Mercedes

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If you had read my post more carefully you would have realized the Wednesday was about the twitter avis and 2021 was for the livery ...

Mercedes isn't really admitting they're "being bad at diversity" or w/e but rather that among those that they deemed to be qualified for the job just 3% were from 'minority ethnic groups' (whatever that means).

For UK: "6 per cent of people in professional engineering roles are from black and minority ethnic backgrounds, according to a Royal Academy of Engineering analysis of Labour force survey data in 2013."

US:
Image

Given that the requirements for an F1 job are even higher there's nothing wrong with the percentages.

That's why Merc will start some 'targeted education initiatives to encourage and support talented people from under-represented backgrounds who aspire to reach F1' ... it's about getting more of said group into F1 tech/engineering/whatever because as of now there's apparently not that many of em ... it's not like ~13% of the population (ethnic+minorities) make up ~50% of highly qualified engineers and they did not pick them because they're racist ... they will always pick the most qualified for the position.

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Re: [ 2020 ] AMG Mercedes F1 Team - Mercedes

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RZS10 wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 3:01 pm
If you had read my post more carefully you would have realized the Wednesday was about the twitter avis and 2021 was for the livery ...

Mercedes isn't really admitting they're "being bad at diversity" or w/e but rather that among those that they deemed to be qualified for the job just 3% were from 'minority ethnic groups' (whatever that means) and that's why they'll start some 'targeted education initiatives to encourage and support talented people from under-represented backgrounds who aspire to reach F1' ... it's about getting more of said group into F1 tech/engineering/whatever because as of now there's apparently not that many of em ... it's not like there's a pool of 50/50 '''minority''' and 'non-minority' and they only picked the latter because they're racist ... they will always pick the most qualified for the position.
This is indeed the defence I’ve been battening for years, “we take the most qualified”. Many studies and experience from people in job placement deny this. Even in a liberal county as the Netherlands its easier to get a job when you you’re white with a criminal record then when you have a colour with a degree.

It’s not a problem you can solve just with a different approach at the gates, it has to be rolled out in every direction. Positive role models, incentives in the form of scholarships and a more safe work environment. It looks like the combination of Hamilton and Mercedes are making big investments in all those directions.

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RZS10
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Re: [ 2020 ] AMG Mercedes F1 Team - Mercedes

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I know that it's an issue outside F1 but just from a logical standpoint (ignoring that some maybe just don't apply for jobs there which is a distinct possibility and they could get them by reaching out) - would an F1 team hurt itself by not getting the best people?

I bet that all teams employ a wild mix of nationalities with a trend towards nationals from the country they're based at and they could say "hey we're diverse our 1400 employees come from x countries" instead of just focusing on "only 3% are non-white(?)/minority ethnic"
Last edited by RZS10 on Mon Jun 29, 2020 3:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.