Mercedes changes 2020 livery in fight against racism

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mclaren111
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Re: [ 2020 ] AMG Mercedes F1 Team - Mercedes

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This PC correctness is driving me crazy...

Simple... Best Man / Woman for the Job...

Stop Blaming Whites for Everything...

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: [ 2020 ] AMG Mercedes F1 Team - Mercedes

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HungarianRacer wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 11:31 am
This isn't an April Fool's joke, is it?.... Will they now introduce "race quotas" in their personnel recruitment protocols?... If not, they'll make themselves look like massive hypocrites by around this time of next year, I reckon....
Lol "Race quotas" that would be a slap in the face. Lol

I think these are marketing excerises overall that fall under "corporate social responsibilty" but some good usually comes out of them. You might see some inner city programs or scholarships or the like.
Not driving a Mercedes? Work harder!

Jolle
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Re: [ 2020 ] AMG Mercedes F1 Team - Mercedes

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RZS10 wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 3:20 pm
I know that it's an issue outside F1 but just from a logical standpoint (ignoring that some maybe just don't apply for jobs there which is a distinct possibility and they could get them by reaching out) - would an F1 team hurt itself by not getting the best people?
There is no indication that F1 teams are the exception of the rule (the “rule” that you need less qualifications as a white male then a woman, people of color, etc, or/and get payed less).

Underneath this sport image is “just” a medium sized company with traditional HR and management.

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RZS10
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Re: [ 2020 ] AMG Mercedes F1 Team - Mercedes

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We'll know once they have concluded their "forensic analysis of [their] recruitment and development processes" i guess

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Pyrone89
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Re: [ 2020 ] AMG Mercedes F1 Team - Mercedes

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I am sick and tired of the virtue signalling. Especially by companies that at the same time use labour under horrible conditions (electronics suppliers for example). Also this whole white guilt thing. How am I supposed to influence the actions of generations that had been dead for 200 years when I was born? Not to mention that seeing my grandpa's profession (farmer without owning land) I am pretty sure generations before my grandpa may have been slaves themselves. I am not even going to go into BLM which started out as something sincere but has since been hijacked for political gains. So what are F1-teams supposed to do? Hire less qualified engineers just because they are black? THAT would be racism in it's purest form! Hire the best ones, provide equal chances. Equal chances is not the same as equal outcomes. And a white dominated sport? Please remind me who the current reigning 6x WDC is that has had the best car for the past 6 or 7 years?
Best WDC-drivers in F1 history:
Schumacher, Senna, Fangio

Driving a dominant car in the most dominant team ever, helped by favorable rule changes, against subtop teammates does not make you the GOAT (but still superb). It just helps you inflate/skew your stats.

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: [ 2020 ] AMG Mercedes F1 Team - Mercedes

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RZS10 wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 3:32 pm
We'll know once they have concluded their "forensic analysis of [their] recruitment and development processes" i guess
I have spent so many years in corporate settings to know this will only be a "half assed" exercise just to tick a few boxes. :P


I agree with those that say it is a PR stunt. Every company and their nephew has a "BLM" or " end racism" theme because thats the hot topic right now. I don't support the underlying motives of these companies capitalizing but I do believe that increased awareness is good becuase most Europeans DO NOT understand or are very lacking in knowledge on systemic racism. Bernie is a perfect example of this.

Like the "breast cancer awareness" day or whatever; breast cancer may not affect us directly or indrectly on other hand it may be close to home.. But those little pink badges raise awareness.. And i believe awareness is the important first step so that people go out there learn. I wouldn't be an Engineer today if it wasn't for a small LEGO kit my aunt bought me as a kid. Awareness is important.
Not driving a Mercedes? Work harder!

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Phil
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Re: [ 2020 ] AMG Mercedes F1 Team - Mercedes

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Jolle wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 3:13 pm
This is indeed the defence I’ve been battening for years, “we take the most qualified”. Many studies and experience from people in job placement deny this. Even in a liberal county as the Netherlands its easier to get a job when you you’re white with a criminal record then when you have a colour with a degree.
I run a business and when we seek new employees, take a guess what the large percentage of applicants are. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to therefore conclude who we will likely hire. And yes, we hire "the best qualified for the job". Because we are more concerned about getting stuff done and making money rather than the ethic background of our employees? I really don't see the point where and how the skin color or the ethnic background is relevant even in the slightest to these discussions. It feels more as if some sometimes are looking for "hidden agendas" in places where the answer to the question is way simpler.

The same argument is also in regards to equality between men and women. It's not my fault that in IT, there are more men and for some reason, women generally aren't geeks.

I really don't see it as strange when big cooperations like Mercedes have less diversity, more a logical consequence of what is available on the market and who is qualified.
Not for nothing, Rosberg's Championship is the only thing that lends credibility to Hamilton's recent success. Otherwise, he'd just be the guy who's had the best car. — bhall II
#Team44 supporter

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siskue2005
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Re: [ 2020 ] AMG Mercedes F1 Team - Mercedes

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Phil wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 3:45 pm
Jolle wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 3:13 pm
This is indeed the defence I’ve been battening for years, “we take the most qualified”. Many studies and experience from people in job placement deny this. Even in a liberal county as the Netherlands its easier to get a job when you you’re white with a criminal record then when you have a colour with a degree.
I run a business and when we seek new employees, take a guess what the large percentage of applicants are. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to therefore conclude who we will likely hire. And yes, we hire "the best qualified for the job". Because we are more concerned about getting stuff done and making money rather than the ethic background of our employees? I really don't see the point where and how the skin color or the ethnic background is relevant even in the slightest to these discussions. It feels more as if some sometimes are looking for "hidden agendas" in places where the answer to the question is way simpler.

The same argument is also in regards to equality between men and women. It's not my fault that in IT, there are more men and for some reason, women generally aren't geeks.

I really don't see it as strange when big cooperations like Mercedes have less diversity, more a logical consequence of what is available on the market and who is qualified.
So you are saying there are only certain ethnicity people who are qualified? Isnt that itself ignorant comment?
Edit: and there are people who upvote such comments #-o

V12-POWER
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Re: [ 2020 ] AMG Mercedes F1 Team - Mercedes

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All the greats said “keep politics out of F1”

Now we have this “wonderful” era where we are full of “diversity” supporting “peaceful protesters” that coincidentally all have certain political bias towards one side.

This political game will not end well.

Companies will play along the trend, this is normal and always happens, what really angers me is racing drivers playing the victim card and others promoting it in other ways.

Stick to driving and shut the hell up

Jolle
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Re: [ 2020 ] AMG Mercedes F1 Team - Mercedes

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V12-POWER wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 4:01 pm
All the greats said “keep politics out of F1”

Now we have this “wonderful” era where we are full of “diversity” supporting “peaceful protesters” that coincidentally all have certain political bias towards one side.

This political game will not end well.

Companies will play along the trend, this is normal and always happens, what really angers me is racing drivers playing the victim card and others promoting it in other ways.

Stick to driving and shut the hell up
I like to think about racism as a good vs evil thing, not a political item. That some politicians make it into something political, is their problem.

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Phil
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Re: [ 2020 ] AMG Mercedes F1 Team - Mercedes

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siskue2005 wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 3:52 pm
...
No, the point was that companies/cooperations/businesses employ what is generally available to them and it's within their rights to take the best "bang for buck" they can get. To the point, it has really nothing to do with ethnicity so therefore looking for agendas that are irrelevant is what I disagree with. I have not made any attempt to answer why perhaps some people with different ethnic background find themselves not hired. Maybe they are simply fewer of them? That would pretty much explain my own experience, just as much as why there are more men in IT than women (and thus more men are hired statistically). Doesn't mean that one is better than the other. It's just a logical consequence of the numbers.
Not for nothing, Rosberg's Championship is the only thing that lends credibility to Hamilton's recent success. Otherwise, he'd just be the guy who's had the best car. — bhall II
#Team44 supporter

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: [ 2020 ] AMG Mercedes F1 Team - Mercedes

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Pyrone89 wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 3:41 pm
I am sick and tired of the virtue signalling. Especially by companies that at the same time use labour under horrible conditions (electronics suppliers for example). Also this whole white guilt thing. How am I supposed to influence the actions of generations that had been dead for 200 years when I was born? Not to mention that seeing my grandpa's profession (farmer without owning land) I am pretty sure generations before my grandpa may have been slaves themselves. I am not even going to go into BLM which started out as something sincere but has since been hijacked for political gains. So what are F1-teams supposed to do? Hire less qualified engineers just because they are black? THAT would be racism in it's purest form! Hire the best ones, provide equal chances. Equal chances is not the same as equal outcomes. And a white dominated sport? Please remind me who the current reigning 6x WDC is that has had the best car for the past 6 or 7 years?
I agree with some of your points but in bold is highlights why you need to do more research! We need to be aware of how the different races came into this big melting pot and the thinking behind why they were brought into it.

At your second bolded part.. How many Black Engineers do you know that are under qualified? this is a very strange comment!

Done work woth engineers from all over the world and what I learn is "a man is just a man." there are smart engineesrs.. Dumb engineers........ everywhere... Even "Zee Germans" have a few shockers too! People are just people.

Another thing; usually, minorities have to be overqualified to get into any "token" post. I believe so called minority posts should be encouraged for now until those ethnic communities get more developed themselves. It is not easy to pursue engineering coming from poor communites no matter the race. It is a social responsibility to help poor communities.
Not driving a Mercedes? Work harder!

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Pyrone89
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Re: [ 2020 ] AMG Mercedes F1 Team - Mercedes

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Jolle wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 3:13 pm
RZS10 wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 3:01 pm
If you had read my post more carefully you would have realized the Wednesday was about the twitter avis and 2021 was for the livery ...

Mercedes isn't really admitting they're "being bad at diversity" or w/e but rather that among those that they deemed to be qualified for the job just 3% were from 'minority ethnic groups' (whatever that means) and that's why they'll start some 'targeted education initiatives to encourage and support talented people from under-represented backgrounds who aspire to reach F1' ... it's about getting more of said group into F1 tech/engineering/whatever because as of now there's apparently not that many of em ... it's not like there's a pool of 50/50 '''minority''' and 'non-minority' and they only picked the latter because they're racist ... they will always pick the most qualified for the position.
This is indeed the defence I’ve been battening for years, “we take the most qualified”. Many studies and experience from people in job placement deny this. Even in a liberal county as the Netherlands its easier to get a job when you you’re white with a criminal record then when you have a colour with a degree.
I am sorry Jolle,

I am also from the Netherlands and what you are saying here is utter BS.

In the Netherlands you don't get a so called VOG (Declaration of Good Behavior) if you have a relevant criminal history. Most companies that pay anywhere decent wages won't hire you then, regardless of color. Also with regards to your link to a degree: it is hard to get hired without a degree here regardless of color. Our country even has something called 'positive discrimination' (apparently discrimination is suddenly okay when it serves their political agenda) where governments hire people of colour and woman BEFORE men. Also you can see at companies such as Deloitte that they hire mostly woman now and a large engineering university in the Netherlands has even banned (white) males from applying as a PhD student.

We are currently embroiled in a discussion about a TV host (who for weeks has been condeming racism and the police in America) who made a bad joke (the program is always known for a hard take on societal matters, that the charm) who is now basically saying: enough is enough with this horrible cancel culture. There is also something called the right to free speech and bad jokes are covered by it.

Please stop spreading this misinformation about our country.
Best WDC-drivers in F1 history:
Schumacher, Senna, Fangio

Driving a dominant car in the most dominant team ever, helped by favorable rule changes, against subtop teammates does not make you the GOAT (but still superb). It just helps you inflate/skew your stats.

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PlatinumZealot
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Joined: Thu Jun 12, 2008 2:45 am

Re: [ 2020 ] AMG Mercedes F1 Team - Mercedes

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V12-POWER wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 4:01 pm
All the greats said “keep politics out of F1”

Now we have this “wonderful” era where we are full of “diversity” supporting “peaceful protesters” that coincidentally all have certain political bias towards one side.

This political game will not end well.

Companies will play along the trend, this is normal and always happens, what really angers me is racing drivers playing the victim card and others promoting it in other ways.

Stick to driving and shut the hell up
:shock: :shock:
Not driving a Mercedes? Work harder!

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Pyrone89
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Joined: Fri Jul 05, 2019 8:44 pm

Re: [ 2020 ] AMG Mercedes F1 Team - Mercedes

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 4:07 pm
Pyrone89 wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 3:41 pm
I am sick and tired of the virtue signalling. Especially by companies that at the same time use labour under horrible conditions (electronics suppliers for example). Also this whole white guilt thing. How am I supposed to influence the actions of generations that had been dead for 200 years when I was born? Not to mention that seeing my grandpa's profession (farmer without owning land) I am pretty sure generations before my grandpa may have been slaves themselves. I am not even going to go into BLM which started out as something sincere but has since been hijacked for political gains. So what are F1-teams supposed to do? Hire less qualified engineers just because they are black? THAT would be racism in it's purest form! Hire the best ones, provide equal chances. Equal chances is not the same as equal outcomes. And a white dominated sport? Please remind me who the current reigning 6x WDC is that has had the best car for the past 6 or 7 years?
I agree with some of your points but in bold is highlights why you need to do more research! We need to be aware of how the different races came into this big melting pot and the thinking behind why they were brought into it.

At your second bolded part.. How many Black Engineers do you know that are under qualified? this is a very strange comment!

Done work woth engineers from all over the world and what I learn is "a man is just a man." there are smart engineesrs.. Dumb engineers........ everywhere... Even "Zee Germans" have a few shockers too! People are just people.

Another thing; usually, minorities have to be overqualified to get into any "token" post. I believe so called minority posts should be encouraged for now until those ethnic communities get more developed themselves. It is not easy to pursue engineering coming from poor communites no matter the race. It is a social responsibility to help poor communities.
Maybe because English is not my native language. But what I was saying is: say there happen to be 20 super engineers. 5 happen to be black. Are you then forced to hire 5 mediocre black engineers just because of this whole PC culture? Or do you hire the best 20 you cant get and accept it is 15/5 divided. Same with other branches. And if roles where reversed and it were 15 blacks and 5 whites, I am sure the PC crowd suddenly think THEN it is oke to not have quotas.

Moral of the story: hired the best engineers, dont look at color.
Best WDC-drivers in F1 history:
Schumacher, Senna, Fangio

Driving a dominant car in the most dominant team ever, helped by favorable rule changes, against subtop teammates does not make you the GOAT (but still superb). It just helps you inflate/skew your stats.