Mercedes changes 2020 livery in fight against racism

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V12-POWER
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Re: [ 2020 ] AMG Mercedes F1 Team - Mercedes

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 4:10 pm
V12-POWER wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 4:01 pm
All the greats said “keep politics out of F1”

Now we have this “wonderful” era where we are full of “diversity” supporting “peaceful protesters” that coincidentally all have certain political bias towards one side.

This political game will not end well.

Companies will play along the trend, this is normal and always happens, what really angers me is racing drivers playing the victim card and others promoting it in other ways.

Stick to driving and shut the hell up
:shock: :shock:
What’s so surprising? They’re racing drivers not political figures. Example: Lewis hamilton going straight against Donald Trump in one of his instagram stories. Basically rooting for Biden. Are people here that blind?

This is not like the case of removing sponsors for one race or putting a black painted nose to pay respects for real victims.

This is political, and this has no place in F1

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El Scorchio
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Re: [ 2020 ] AMG Mercedes F1 Team - Mercedes

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Why are people assuming that Mercedes are just going to adopt a Rooney rule with regard to new hires for their race team personnel?

They haven't announced their plan. Maybe it's something like a scholarship or foundation to help students from ethnic minority/LGBT backgrounds get into engineering with an aim to working in F1, or maybe just an aim to working in engineering? That would seem like the far more effective initiative where it's clear that many people don't or can't see their full potential and realise engineering could be a viable career for them for whatever reason, so i really hope it's something lasting like that. 'Sexy' occupations like F1 are a great gateway to attract young people into engineering or tech as a whole, so we should applaud them for using their position to perhaps try and influence that.

I know it's a world of different opinions and I know not everyone shares mine and this can be a touchy subject, but either way, they are doing a good thing and actually even better if it's putting that thing on a par with continuing their success as a racing outfit.

I really hope the other teams follow similar statements or maybe come together with a bigger initiative. It's high time certain careers were made more accessible for everyone, and for F1 to use it's position of influence for what i would consider a good cause.

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proteus
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Re: [ 2020 ] AMG Mercedes F1 Team - Mercedes

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Everything is going far too far. The biggest loser in this is an average Joe, which voice is being silenced and sidelined. If someone from BLM or LGTB+-%@$xyz makes up a lie about this average Joe just for giggles, this poor bastard will get torn apart by media and majority of people.
If i would get the money to start my own F1 team, i would revive Arrows

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siskue2005
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Re: [ 2020 ] AMG Mercedes F1 Team - Mercedes

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Phil wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 4:05 pm
siskue2005 wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 3:52 pm
...
No, the point was that companies/cooperations/businesses employ what is generally available to them and it's within their rights to take the best "bang for buck" they can get. To the point, it has really nothing to do with ethnicity so therefore looking for agendas that are irrelevant is what I disagree with. I have not made any attempt to answer why perhaps some people with different ethnic background find themselves not hired. Maybe they are simply fewer of them? That would pretty much explain my own experience, just as much as why there are more men in IT than women (and thus more men are hired statistically). Doesn't mean that one is better than the other. It's just a logical consequence of the numbers.
Do you know UK right to work rules? as majority of the teams are based in UK they have to follow that ..
As a doctor from India, i have cleared every exam UK has thrown at me and have scored very high marks and got professional registration in UK, still i have been unable to get any job offers in UK for the past 8 months...
When you walk into NHS hospital you will see many white people, and are you saying that it is coz there are more talented people in with certain ethnicity or there are very few people applying for it ?

It has to do with the policy of european countries and UK, they hire their own people first and then european people next and then if any place is left they hire others.

https://www.jobs.nhs.uk/advice/overseas_cand.html

Right to work in the UK
A points-based system is the UK's immigration system for managing applications by individuals from outside the European Economic Area (EEA) and Switzerland wishing to work, train or study in the UK. This system simplifies routes to employment and education in the UK to five tiers. If you come from outside the EEA, you need to gain points to qualify for a specific tier before you can apply to work in the UK. The number of points required varies for each tier but reflect the applicants' qualifications, experience, age, previous earnings and language competence.

Tier 2: skilled workers. This category enables NHS organisations to recruit individuals from outside the EEA to fill vacancies that cannot be filled by a British or EEA worker.


Now tell me how Maybe they are simply fewer of them? or is there something else going on?

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Pyrone89
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Re: [ 2020 ] AMG Mercedes F1 Team - Mercedes

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proteus wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 4:37 pm
Everything is going far too far. The biggest loser in this is an average Joe, which voice is being silenced and sidelined. If someone from BLM or LGTB+-%@$xyz makes up a lie about this average Joe just for giggles, this poor bastard will get torn apart by media and majority of people.
Basically we are now getting virtual lynch mobs. And apart from a lot of genuine people at these companies that virtue signal I cannot help but think it is very easy and cheap publicity for them AND helps divert attention from the scandals these companies are involved in such as emmissions fraud (Mercedes) and labor conditions (Apple, Nike) and tax dodging (basically every multinational). Because now the same people who would have been protesting that behavior of companies in the past are busy with this whole saga and may be swayed to give those companies a pass for their behavior for the time being. Call be cynical but I fully believe that is what is going throught the minds of upper exectives who have already shown to lack a moral compass in the past (and we are now supposed to believe those same tax dodgers, labor abusing, climate frauds suddenly overnight became mother theresa?)
Best WDC-drivers in F1 history:
Schumacher, Senna, Fangio

Driving a dominant car in the most dominant team ever, helped by favorable rule changes, against subtop teammates does not make you the GOAT (but still superb). It just helps you inflate/skew your stats.

Jolle
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Re: [ 2020 ] AMG Mercedes F1 Team - Mercedes

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Pyrone89 wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 4:08 pm
Jolle wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 3:13 pm
RZS10 wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 3:01 pm
If you had read my post more carefully you would have realized the Wednesday was about the twitter avis and 2021 was for the livery ...

Mercedes isn't really admitting they're "being bad at diversity" or w/e but rather that among those that they deemed to be qualified for the job just 3% were from 'minority ethnic groups' (whatever that means) and that's why they'll start some 'targeted education initiatives to encourage and support talented people from under-represented backgrounds who aspire to reach F1' ... it's about getting more of said group into F1 tech/engineering/whatever because as of now there's apparently not that many of em ... it's not like there's a pool of 50/50 '''minority''' and 'non-minority' and they only picked the latter because they're racist ... they will always pick the most qualified for the position.
This is indeed the defence I’ve been battening for years, “we take the most qualified”. Many studies and experience from people in job placement deny this. Even in a liberal county as the Netherlands its easier to get a job when you you’re white with a criminal record then when you have a colour with a degree.
I am sorry Jolle,

I am also from the Netherlands and what you are saying here is utter BS.

In the Netherlands you don't get a so called VOG (Declaration of Good Behavior) if you have a relevant criminal history. Most companies that pay anywhere decent wages won't hire you then, regardless of color. Also with regards to your link to a degree: it is hard to get hired without a degree here regardless of color. Our country even has something called 'positive discrimination' (apparently discrimination is suddenly okay when it serves their political agenda) where governments hire people of colour and woman BEFORE men. Also you can see at companies such as Deloitte that they hire mostly woman now and a large engineering university in the Netherlands has even banned (white) males from applying as a PhD student.

We are currently embroiled in a discussion about a TV host (who for weeks has been condeming racism and the police in America) who made a bad joke (the program is always known for a hard take on societal matters, that the charm) who is now basically saying: enough is enough with this horrible cancel culture. There is also something called the right to free speech and bad jokes are covered by it.

Please stop spreading this misinformation about our country.
I know a little about this, because it’s been my job for the past 15 years. From Diversity programs, projects to empower multicultural parts of cities. Did a lot of interviews and worked with the most of the top managers and business owners of colour in the Netherlands. They all, without exception, tell me the same stories that I also see every day. There is (still) a big difference in opportunity in the Netherlands. Even something simple as a VOG is abused on a regular basis. Somehow I’ve seen multiple times that a black persons has to apply for one where the white guy for the same job isn’t.

As for the TV guy, it’s not the first time he made a bad “joke”.

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Pyrone89
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Re: [ 2020 ] AMG Mercedes F1 Team - Mercedes

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Jolle wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 4:49 pm
Pyrone89 wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 4:08 pm
Jolle wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 3:13 pm


This is indeed the defence I’ve been battening for years, “we take the most qualified”. Many studies and experience from people in job placement deny this. Even in a liberal county as the Netherlands its easier to get a job when you you’re white with a criminal record then when you have a colour with a degree.
I am sorry Jolle,

I am also from the Netherlands and what you are saying here is utter BS.

In the Netherlands you don't get a so called VOG (Declaration of Good Behavior) if you have a relevant criminal history. Most companies that pay anywhere decent wages won't hire you then, regardless of color. Also with regards to your link to a degree: it is hard to get hired without a degree here regardless of color. Our country even has something called 'positive discrimination' (apparently discrimination is suddenly okay when it serves their political agenda) where governments hire people of colour and woman BEFORE men. Also you can see at companies such as Deloitte that they hire mostly woman now and a large engineering university in the Netherlands has even banned (white) males from applying as a PhD student.

We are currently embroiled in a discussion about a TV host (who for weeks has been condeming racism and the police in America) who made a bad joke (the program is always known for a hard take on societal matters, that the charm) who is now basically saying: enough is enough with this horrible cancel culture. There is also something called the right to free speech and bad jokes are covered by it.

Please stop spreading this misinformation about our country.
I know a little about this, because it’s been my job for the past 15 years. From Diversity programs, projects to empower multicultural parts of cities. Did a lot of interviews and worked with the most of the top managers and business owners of colour in the Netherlands. They all, without exception, tell me the same stories that I also see every day. There is (still) a big difference in opportunity in the Netherlands. Even something simple as a VOG is abused on a regular basis. Somehow I’ve seen multiple times that a black persons has to apply for one where the white guy for the same job isn’t.

As for the TV guy, it’s not the first time he made a bad “joke”.
1. Got any source for this? Sorry, but based on your earlier statements which directly conflict reality I want proof. For example from CBS. And every experience I have working in multiple companies DIRECTLY run contradictory of the image you are trying to paint of our country. In fact I am willing to go as far as say that if there is ever a country where things have been done to ensure equal treatment or even preferential treatment (see the housing regulations for newcomers, not exactly shouts racism to give them preferential treatment even over the homeless and sick do they?) it is our country. If anything, there is a clear but progressing current of discrimination against young, male (regardless of color) graduates in favor of female applicants. How exactly are those guys at fault for the mistakes of the generations of the past?
2. Neither was the first time he spoke up against racism, which makes all the hysteria so hypocritical. About the freedom to say jokes: Remember, both equal treatment and freedom of speech are constitutional rights. You cannot handpick which to obey. And by your standards Dave Chapelle is a racist, because he makes jokes involving race. See the slippery slope of the cancel culture?
Best WDC-drivers in F1 history:
Schumacher, Senna, Fangio

Driving a dominant car in the most dominant team ever, helped by favorable rule changes, against subtop teammates does not make you the GOAT (but still superb). It just helps you inflate/skew your stats.

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siskue2005
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Joined: Fri May 11, 2007 8:50 pm

Re: [ 2020 ] AMG Mercedes F1 Team - Mercedes

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I am wondering why does everyone think that if someone supports the minority which also means that they hate or despise the majority?
If someone supports or tries to help out the oppressed, that doenst mean they all hate others

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Unf
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Re: [ 2020 ] AMG Mercedes F1 Team - Mercedes

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What the hell are we talking about... for god sake. Black lives matter, white lives matter and yellow lives matter. Black people are not more important than whites, and whites are not more important than asians etc. People are killing each other every day - blacks kills whites, whites kills blacks etc. Is it to hard to understand?!

All that "actions" like rainbows everywhere or livery changing are pathetic, stupid and just ridicules. We need to make an action like #StopKillingEachOther than talking about skins color which is worthless.

Just_a_fan
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Re: [ 2020 ] AMG Mercedes F1 Team - Mercedes

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mclaren111 wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 3:25 pm
This PC correctness is driving me crazy...

Simple... Best Man / Woman for the Job...

Stop Blaming Whites for Everything...
The best man/woman for the job is the outcome we all want. Other than a few fringe loony types, no one wants "positive discrimination" - there is nothing positive about discrimination, after all.

Sadly there are still lots of people who believe that women/blacks/gays/[some other group] are worth less than a white straight man. Quite often those people are the ones that get to offer the jobs to people. So long as there is that prejudice, we'll end up with some people being treated as being less worthy than others solely on the basis of how much melanin they have in their skin / their XX or XY chromosomes / other issue. Is it really fair to treat someone just because they have more melanin than you? What about a white person? Do you treat them less well if they have a good sun tan? Or what about people with red hair, or blue eyes - those are both mutations, after all.

The whole feel at the moment is one that might have been felt back when women were campaigning for the vote. I'd bet a few quid that some of those who are decrying the current situation would also have been there saying that the noise about women's votes was all just that, noise, with no substance.

As for "blaming whites for everything", well when white people set up up the situations that have led to the poor treatment of non-whites, it kind of is their fault. Many of the problems faced around the world today stem from actions taken by white people, notably the UK, the USA, and the former European imperial powers 100 years or more ago. Heck, many of them are the result of more recent political policies/decisions. The British Empire caused many issues, because when the Empire was created, peoples were lumped together in countries determined by the British and their allies/enemies at various points. Hence tribal tensions within African countries even today.

So, yes, we "whites" do have the smell of culpability on our hands, even though we did not, individually, do anything wrong (because we weren't even born in most cases).
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

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siskue2005
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Re: [ 2020 ] AMG Mercedes F1 Team - Mercedes

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I agree that some of the showing off and changing Hermione Grainger to a black women in Harry potter and the cursed child,....such gimickes are just political mileage deals, just to please the leftist. But what Mercedes are doing to counter this by mostly to start scholarship porgammes etc are actually the only way this can be done.

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: [ 2020 ] AMG Mercedes F1 Team - Mercedes

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Pyrone89 wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 4:12 pm

Maybe because English is not my native language. But what I was saying is: say there happen to be 20 super engineers. 5 happen to be black. Are you then forced to hire 5 mediocre black engineers just because of this whole PC culture? Or do you hire the best 20 you cant get and accept it is 15/5 divided. Same with other branches. And if roles where reversed and it were 15 blacks and 5 whites, I am sure the PC crowd suddenly think THEN it is oke to not have quotas.

Moral of the story: hired the best engineers, dont look at color.
The language is fine.
I am saying hire the 20 best engineers and hire a couple juniors or have a internship program with some minorities. This is corporate social responsibility.

In my country we don't really have a significant race problem, but we have a class problem. Anyway.. In one of the companies I worked at, I was in charge of the engineering interns. And we had a couple spaces each time. Some just regular students which I had no idea up to this day how they got the job - dumb as a bag of nails - and the other space was reserved for an "inner-city" student. I find that the inner city students were usually the more brilliant ones. Usually very poor though. One guy had no work clothes and I had to help him get shoes... But to this day he was the best intern that ever walked through the door. That little experience and cash certainly helped him on his way. He's doing his PhD in air quality now. Because of examples like those, I beleive big companies have a social responsibility to help the poor and oppressed. It is usally the case that minorties fall into that bracket in first world countries.
Not driving a Mercedes? Work harder!

Gothrek
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Re: [ 2020 ] AMG Mercedes F1 Team - Mercedes

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https://auto.howstuffworks.com/under-th ... summer.htm

Apparently, having a black painted car reduces fuel economy by 2%.Mainly related to the airco :D So it might mean some components might run a bit hotter in the car?

A 2011 study by the Berkeley Lab Environmental Energy Technologies Division discovered that white, silver, and other light paint colors do improve a car's efficiency. The study, which pitted a silver Honda Civic against a black one, found that light colored cars reflect about 60 percent of sunlight compared to dark colored cars. This translates to a 2 percent decrease in fuel economy (due to increased air conditioner use), a 1.9 percent increase in carbon dioxide emissions, and a 1 percent increase in other harmful emissions for a black car [source: Owano].
Last edited by Gothrek on Mon Jun 29, 2020 5:27 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Jolle
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Re: [ 2020 ] AMG Mercedes F1 Team - Mercedes

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Pyrone89 wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 4:57 pm
Jolle wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 4:49 pm
Pyrone89 wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 4:08 pm


I am sorry Jolle,

I am also from the Netherlands and what you are saying here is utter BS.

In the Netherlands you don't get a so called VOG (Declaration of Good Behavior) if you have a relevant criminal history. Most companies that pay anywhere decent wages won't hire you then, regardless of color. Also with regards to your link to a degree: it is hard to get hired without a degree here regardless of color. Our country even has something called 'positive discrimination' (apparently discrimination is suddenly okay when it serves their political agenda) where governments hire people of colour and woman BEFORE men. Also you can see at companies such as Deloitte that they hire mostly woman now and a large engineering university in the Netherlands has even banned (white) males from applying as a PhD student.

We are currently embroiled in a discussion about a TV host (who for weeks has been condeming racism and the police in America) who made a bad joke (the program is always known for a hard take on societal matters, that the charm) who is now basically saying: enough is enough with this horrible cancel culture. There is also something called the right to free speech and bad jokes are covered by it.

Please stop spreading this misinformation about our country.
I know a little about this, because it’s been my job for the past 15 years. From Diversity programs, projects to empower multicultural parts of cities. Did a lot of interviews and worked with the most of the top managers and business owners of colour in the Netherlands. They all, without exception, tell me the same stories that I also see every day. There is (still) a big difference in opportunity in the Netherlands. Even something simple as a VOG is abused on a regular basis. Somehow I’ve seen multiple times that a black persons has to apply for one where the white guy for the same job isn’t.

As for the TV guy, it’s not the first time he made a bad “joke”.
1. Got any source for this? Sorry, but based on your earlier statements which directly conflict reality I want proof. For example from CBS. And every experience I have working in multiple companies DIRECTLY run contradictory of the image you are trying to paint of our country. In fact I am willing to go as far as say that if there is ever a country where things have been done to ensure equal treatment or even preferential treatment (see the housing regulations for newcomers, not exactly shouts racism to give them preferential treatment even over the homeless and sick do they?) it is our country. If anything, there is a clear but progressing current of discrimination against young, male (regardless of color) graduates in favor of female applicants. How exactly are those guys at fault for the mistakes of the generations of the past?
2. Neither was the first time he spoke up against racism, which makes all the hysteria so hypocritical. About the freedom to say jokes: Remember, both equal treatment and freedom of speech are constitutional rights. You cannot handpick which to obey. And by your standards Dave Chapelle is a racist, because he makes jokes involving race. See the slippery slope of the cancel culture?
This is one of the initiatives I’ve been working with for the past years, also with
Deloitte in the past, even as a sponsor I think.

https://www.theotherbusinessman.nl/

One of many examples why we need change (wetenschappelijk onderzoek VU)
https://www.innovatiefinwerk.nl/sites/i ... svpers.pdf

If you want to read real testimonials from people of colour on the job market, just google a bit and you’ll find more then you can read.

Here we have some other racist comments of Derksen


And freedom of speech doesn’t mean freedom of consequence. Also, freedom of speech doesn’t mean you can say whatever you want. You still not allowed to lie, be racist, make false claims, say you’re a doctor, etc etc. Calling a black woman a monkey because she’s black is racist. Simple.

notsofast
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Re: [ 2020 ] AMG Mercedes F1 Team - Mercedes

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I came to this thread wanting to find out what others think of the new livery. :? It looks like I typed "reddit" by mistake...