Mercedes changes 2020 livery in fight against racism

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ENGINE TUNER
ENGINE TUNER
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Re: [ 2020 ] AMG Mercedes F1 Team - Mercedes

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proteus wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 4:37 pm
Everything is going far too far. The biggest loser in this is an average Joe, which voice is being silenced and sidelined. If someone from BLM or LGTB+-%@$xyz makes up a lie about this average Joe just for giggles, this poor bastard will get torn apart by media and majority of people.
Yeah, average Joe is the biggest loser, not the people who have been oppressed for the last several hundred years /s

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Pyrone89
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Re: [ 2020 ] AMG Mercedes F1 Team - Mercedes

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 5:20 pm
Pyrone89 wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 4:12 pm

Maybe because English is not my native language. But what I was saying is: say there happen to be 20 super engineers. 5 happen to be black. Are you then forced to hire 5 mediocre black engineers just because of this whole PC culture? Or do you hire the best 20 you cant get and accept it is 15/5 divided. Same with other branches. And if roles where reversed and it were 15 blacks and 5 whites, I am sure the PC crowd suddenly think THEN it is oke to not have quotas.

Moral of the story: hired the best engineers, dont look at color.
The language is fine.
I am saying hire the 20 best engineers and hire a couple juniors or have a internship program with some minorities. This is corporate social responsibility.

In my country we don't really have a significant race problem, but we have a class problem. Anyway.. In one of the companies I worked at, I was in charge of the engineering interns. And we had a couple spaces each time. Some just regular students which I had no idea up to this day how they got the job - dumb as a bag of nails - and the other space was reserved for an "inner-city" student. I find that the inner city students were usually the more brilliant ones. Usually very poor though. One guy had no work clothes and I had to help him get shoes... But to this day he was the best intern that ever walked through the door. That little experience and cash certainly helped him on his way. He's doing his PhD in air quality now. Because of examples like those, I beleive big companies have a social responsibility to help the poor and oppressed. It is usally the case that minorties fall into that bracket in first world countries.
Agree, I come from a country where both race and class are not a mayor deal. I take it you are from England?

The solution to this would have been to hire 20 of those inner city kids, not because they were black or inner city but because they were better.

We need to be carefull that in trying to fix flaws we dont create a new one.

Without sounding like a Marxist (believe me, I am far from it) we need to abolish differentiation based on class, race, religion, gender, age. We need a true meritocracy with assistance for the people who happen to be less lucky to be born with a non-genius IQ or because their health is holding them back. That is my utopia. So also no royal families, no inherited wealth (apart from like max 100k or a normal house worth or something), free education paid from taxes, anonymous job applications in the first steps, but also safeguards to make sure not the whole world comes to benefit from this system like already happens now in many countries.
Best WDC-drivers in F1 history:
Schumacher, Senna, Fangio

Driving a dominant car in the most dominant team ever, helped by favorable rule changes, against subtop teammates does not make you the GOAT (but still superb). It just helps you inflate/skew your stats.

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Pyrone89
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Re: [ 2020 ] AMG Mercedes F1 Team - Mercedes

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ENGINE TUNER wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 5:46 pm
proteus wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 4:37 pm
Everything is going far too far. The biggest loser in this is an average Joe, which voice is being silenced and sidelined. If someone from BLM or LGTB+-%@$xyz makes up a lie about this average Joe just for giggles, this poor bastard will get torn apart by media and majority of people.
Yeah, average Joe is the biggest loser, not the people who have been oppressed for the last several hundred years /s
Those must have been some old people :lol:
Best WDC-drivers in F1 history:
Schumacher, Senna, Fangio

Driving a dominant car in the most dominant team ever, helped by favorable rule changes, against subtop teammates does not make you the GOAT (but still superb). It just helps you inflate/skew your stats.

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RZS10
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Re: [ 2020 ] AMG Mercedes F1 Team - Mercedes

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wheeeeeeeee
Image

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Pyrone89
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Re: [ 2020 ] AMG Mercedes F1 Team - Mercedes

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Jolle wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 5:25 pm
Pyrone89 wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 4:57 pm
Jolle wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 4:49 pm


I know a little about this, because it’s been my job for the past 15 years. From Diversity programs, projects to empower multicultural parts of cities. Did a lot of interviews and worked with the most of the top managers and business owners of colour in the Netherlands. They all, without exception, tell me the same stories that I also see every day. There is (still) a big difference in opportunity in the Netherlands. Even something simple as a VOG is abused on a regular basis. Somehow I’ve seen multiple times that a black persons has to apply for one where the white guy for the same job isn’t.

As for the TV guy, it’s not the first time he made a bad “joke”.
1. Got any source for this? Sorry, but based on your earlier statements which directly conflict reality I want proof. For example from CBS. And every experience I have working in multiple companies DIRECTLY run contradictory of the image you are trying to paint of our country. In fact I am willing to go as far as say that if there is ever a country where things have been done to ensure equal treatment or even preferential treatment (see the housing regulations for newcomers, not exactly shouts racism to give them preferential treatment even over the homeless and sick do they?) it is our country. If anything, there is a clear but progressing current of discrimination against young, male (regardless of color) graduates in favor of female applicants. How exactly are those guys at fault for the mistakes of the generations of the past?
2. Neither was the first time he spoke up against racism, which makes all the hysteria so hypocritical. About the freedom to say jokes: Remember, both equal treatment and freedom of speech are constitutional rights. You cannot handpick which to obey. And by your standards Dave Chapelle is a racist, because he makes jokes involving race. See the slippery slope of the cancel culture?
This is one of the initiatives I’ve been working with for the past years, also with
Deloitte in the past, even as a sponsor I think.

https://www.theotherbusinessman.nl/

One of many examples why we need change (wetenschappelijk onderzoek VU)
https://www.innovatiefinwerk.nl/sites/i ... svpers.pdf

If you want to read real testimonials from people of colour on the job market, just google a bit and you’ll find more then you can read.

Here we have some other racist comments of Derksen


And freedom of speech doesn’t mean freedom of consequence. Also, freedom of speech doesn’t mean you can say whatever you want. You still not allowed to lie, be racist, make false claims, say you’re a doctor, etc etc. Calling a black woman a monkey because she’s black is racist. Simple.
Got anything peer reviewed? Anything with true statistical grunt? Google is anecdotal evidence. Just Google discrimination of whites, discriminations of males. Also enough on Google. Does not make it scientific.

And speaking bluntly about the shortcomings of the integration state is not the same as racism. This is exactly they problem and the reason why people are starting to shun the movement. They are so extreme.
Best WDC-drivers in F1 history:
Schumacher, Senna, Fangio

Driving a dominant car in the most dominant team ever, helped by favorable rule changes, against subtop teammates does not make you the GOAT (but still superb). It just helps you inflate/skew your stats.

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SparkyAMG
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Re: [ 2020 ] AMG Mercedes F1 Team - Mercedes

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To everyone declaring that this has gone too far, or that this is pandering, and that Mercedes should 'just hire the best people'... That is exactly the point.

I don't want a response, but I do want to ask that anyone who has made a similar statement to really think about whether they have done so with an unconscious bias that white men are the 'best people' and made an assumption that Mercedes would be sacrificing performance by improving diversity. What if they're not hiring the best people? What if they (and most other companies) are missing out on some of the most talented people because they have made the very same assumptions because of unconscious race or gender bias?

Improving diversity isn't about hiring a black woman over a white man to increase the number of people from ethnic minorities within an organisation, it's about making sure that the black woman has all of the same opportunities that a white man would have and is treated fairly during recruitment.

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Pyrone89
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Re: [ 2020 ] AMG Mercedes F1 Team - Mercedes

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RZS10 wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 5:52 pm
wheeeeeeeee
https://cdn.prgloo.com/media/3fea293a0b ... height=960
Is that the new Alfa livery? :mrgreen:
Best WDC-drivers in F1 history:
Schumacher, Senna, Fangio

Driving a dominant car in the most dominant team ever, helped by favorable rule changes, against subtop teammates does not make you the GOAT (but still superb). It just helps you inflate/skew your stats.

dans79
dans79
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Location: USA

Re: [ 2020 ] AMG Mercedes F1 Team - Mercedes

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Yep, and it seems the moderators don't care either!
RZS10 wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 5:52 pm
wheeeeeeeee
https://cdn.prgloo.com/media/3fea293a0b ... height=960
164 98 95 7

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Pyrone89
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Re: [ 2020 ] AMG Mercedes F1 Team - Mercedes

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SparkyAMG wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 5:54 pm
To everyone declaring that this has gone too far, or that this is pandering, and that Mercedes should 'just hire the best people'... That is exactly the point.

I don't want a response, but I do want to ask that anyone who has made a similar statement to really think about whether they have done so with an unconscious bias that white men are the 'best people' and made an assumption that Mercedes would be sacrificing performance by improving diversity. What if they're not hiring the best people? What if they (and most other companies) are missing out on some of the most talented people because they have made the very same assumptions because of unconscious race or gender bias?

Improving diversity isn't about hiring a black woman over a white man to increase the number of people from ethnic minorities within an organisation, it's about making sure that the black woman has all of the same opportunities that a white man would have and is treated fairly during recruitment.
Seeing how Mercedes has been dominating, I fear what will happen when they start hiring the best if they werent already doing that :o
Best WDC-drivers in F1 history:
Schumacher, Senna, Fangio

Driving a dominant car in the most dominant team ever, helped by favorable rule changes, against subtop teammates does not make you the GOAT (but still superb). It just helps you inflate/skew your stats.

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siskue2005
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Re: [ 2020 ] AMG Mercedes F1 Team - Mercedes

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Why arent the mods moderating these posts, i can clearly see some racist comments and behaviours here.
Please stop this

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Pyrone89
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Re: [ 2020 ] AMG Mercedes F1 Team - Mercedes

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dans79 wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 5:56 pm
Yep, and it seems the moderators don't care either!
RZS10 wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 5:52 pm
wheeeeeeeee
https://cdn.prgloo.com/media/3fea293a0b ... height=960
Why? Free speech annoys you. As far as I can tell people are having a based, gentle conversation without flames. So well within the rules. And it is on-topic because Mercedes specifically mentioned it as the reason for their new livery. So they themselves made it 100% on topic.
Best WDC-drivers in F1 history:
Schumacher, Senna, Fangio

Driving a dominant car in the most dominant team ever, helped by favorable rule changes, against subtop teammates does not make you the GOAT (but still superb). It just helps you inflate/skew your stats.

User avatar
Pyrone89
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Joined: Fri Jul 05, 2019 8:44 pm

Re: [ 2020 ] AMG Mercedes F1 Team - Mercedes

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siskue2005 wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 5:56 pm
Why arent the mods moderating these posts, i can clearly see some racist comments and behaviours here.
Please stop this
Such as, please point me to those racist posts. Not to be confused with posts you merely disagree with. Unless I missed something you are doing exactly what you GIF avatar is showing when discussions get real.

And regarding the topic: Mercedes with their statement made this discussion 100% on topic.
Last edited by Pyrone89 on Mon Jun 29, 2020 5:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Best WDC-drivers in F1 history:
Schumacher, Senna, Fangio

Driving a dominant car in the most dominant team ever, helped by favorable rule changes, against subtop teammates does not make you the GOAT (but still superb). It just helps you inflate/skew your stats.

ENGINE TUNER
ENGINE TUNER
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Re: [ 2020 ] AMG Mercedes F1 Team - Mercedes

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Hail22 wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 2:24 pm
There's a reason why Bernie pushed so hard to keep politics out of Formula 1, if no one can see it now you'll see it sooner or later.

If people gave a hoot about minorities then why isn't there such a giant hubub going on about the constant abuse, stripping of freedoms of Bangladeshi, Indian and Filipino migrants in the UAE, Middle east as a whole?

What about the slave trade occurring in the stateless nation that is Libya? What about the murder of countless hundreds of Gay, Lesbian or non-conforming muslims in middle Eastern nations who are thrown off the top of buildings? What about the stoning and mistreatment of women in Pakistan?

What I'm getting at here is that this "message" that Mercedes-Benz is displaying is merely that of following a "trend" in order to get a few "virtue" signal points, in the grand scheme of things and in all honesty, they don't really care about the real issues this world faces...they're in it purely for the money and you all know that and that's what big business does, follow the money.

So let's be mature and intelligent about this and see it for what it is...a PR stunt, pure and simple.

P.S I like the Black livery :wink:
Keep politics out of F1, women are kitchen appliances and hail hilter- bernie

Yeah, that's the guy you are following.

You clowns are silly, and so is your whataboutism

Jolle
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Re: [ 2020 ] AMG Mercedes F1 Team - Mercedes

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Pyrone89 wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 5:54 pm
Jolle wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 5:25 pm
Pyrone89 wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 4:57 pm

1. Got any source for this? Sorry, but based on your earlier statements which directly conflict reality I want proof. For example from CBS. And every experience I have working in multiple companies DIRECTLY run contradictory of the image you are trying to paint of our country. In fact I am willing to go as far as say that if there is ever a country where things have been done to ensure equal treatment or even preferential treatment (see the housing regulations for newcomers, not exactly shouts racism to give them preferential treatment even over the homeless and sick do they?) it is our country. If anything, there is a clear but progressing current of discrimination against young, male (regardless of color) graduates in favor of female applicants. How exactly are those guys at fault for the mistakes of the generations of the past?
2. Neither was the first time he spoke up against racism, which makes all the hysteria so hypocritical. About the freedom to say jokes: Remember, both equal treatment and freedom of speech are constitutional rights. You cannot handpick which to obey. And by your standards Dave Chapelle is a racist, because he makes jokes involving race. See the slippery slope of the cancel culture?
This is one of the initiatives I’ve been working with for the past years, also with
Deloitte in the past, even as a sponsor I think.

https://www.theotherbusinessman.nl/

One of many examples why we need change (wetenschappelijk onderzoek VU)
https://www.innovatiefinwerk.nl/sites/i ... svpers.pdf

If you want to read real testimonials from people of colour on the job market, just google a bit and you’ll find more then you can read.

Here we have some other racist comments of Derksen


And freedom of speech doesn’t mean freedom of consequence. Also, freedom of speech doesn’t mean you can say whatever you want. You still not allowed to lie, be racist, make false claims, say you’re a doctor, etc etc. Calling a black woman a monkey because she’s black is racist. Simple.
Got anything peer reviewed? Anything with true statistical grunt? Google is anecdotal evidence. Just Google discrimination of whites, discriminations of males. Also enough on Google. Does not make it scientific.

And speaking bluntly about the shortcomings of the integration state is not the same as racism. This is exactly they problem and the reason why people are starting to shun the movement. They are so extreme.
One better, an article from one of the more neutral papers in the Netherlands with links to the scientific research on the matter. https://www.ad.nl/ad-werkt/discriminati ... ~a31e53d0/

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RZS10
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Re: [ 2020 ] AMG Mercedes F1 Team - Mercedes

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siskue2005 wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 5:56 pm
Why arent the mods moderating these posts, i can clearly see some racist comments and behaviours here.
Please stop this
There's not a single actually racist comment in this thread though?