McLaren F1

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joseff
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Joined: 24 Sep 2002, 11:53

McLaren F1

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Just rewatched my Top Gear vid on the Big Mac.

Amazing... isn't it? 11 years, and nobody has managed to top the McLaren F1. Ferrari didn't even come close with the Enzo. Porsche's GT1 came and went. The new Carrera GT is still too slow. Numerous Bugatti prototypes never made it to production. Even McLaren couldn't top themselves with the SLR.

And it's beautiful! Ferrari tried copying it for their 360 Modena, and came short.

This is the car that Gordon Murray "never intended" to be a race car. Yet it's so good that they had to dumb it down (down in power, no active aero) to make the GTR version, and it won Le Mans on its first try!

With the world's oil supplies diminishing, tighter emissions/noise/size regulations, the push towards smaller hybrids, I think we've seen the greatest of the supercars.

The 90 or so remaining in this world should be driven. Hard. It'd be a shame to see them end up as museum pieces.

Irvingthien
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Joined: 17 Nov 2003, 03:40

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I think McLaren had already been knocked of the top spot of supercars already.check out this site below
http://www.supercars.net/cars/2002@$Bug ... yrong.html
Look at the horsepower, 1001HP!!And the engine is a quadturbo 16 cylinder in W configuration.It's not a concept.The top speed is 250mph, McLaren's top speed is like 240 mph.The bugatti is probably too expensive. That's why it's not popular.
[img]http://image_www.supercars.net/Pic?s=1&id=249&i=0&p=2002_bugatti_16-4_veyron-1.jpg&y=2002&m=Bugatti&o=16/4%20Veyron[img][/img]

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joseff
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Joined: 24 Sep 2002, 11:53

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But it's still a concept... not for sale yet
well at least not a "production" car... the sultan of Brunei can of course purchase any car in the world :)

akbar21881
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Joined: 28 Jun 2003, 22:49
Location: bristol,uk

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I read somewhere about the Veyron.It still has some aero problem and hence delaying the launch.Even the Bugattis people havent test its top speed yet.250mph is just the theoretical topspeed.Worst still,the site that said Veyron has a serious aero problem also said Bugatti might limit the top speed to only 340 kmh...got a good value for 1m euro.

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“Ferrari tried to copy it with the 360 Modena and came short” ?

You must be kidding or you’ve never seen a Ferrari 360 Modena. :roll:

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joseff
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Joined: 24 Sep 2002, 11:53

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I reserve my right of subjective opinion... the F1 is still prettier. And smaller.

The 360 is a very beautiful car, but it's somewhat bloated. If only Ferrari could keep its size at the 355's.

Funny thing is, Gordon Murray made a lot of noise about the similarities of the 360 to the F1 BEFORE the Ferrari's release. Then all of the sudden, he went quiet, as if some unseen forces were at work :)

Mclaren11
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Joined: 13 May 2003, 22:54
Location: Columbus, Indiana, USA

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If you are interested in this subject I would reccomend DRIVING AMBITION by Doug Nye. it is an interesting book about the F1.

Alex M3
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Joined: 29 Nov 2003, 22:49
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In what area does the F1 still reign supreme? Not many really..

Top speed? That's about it..

Enzo will roast it in acceleration, braking, aero, etc.

The F1 still is the best in my opinion due to its very low weight, BMW V12, and central driving position, but if i owned one it would be due for some updates. Namely, LM bodywork, 15" brakes, bigger wheels..

The GTR version was not dumbed down at all, it was souped up.. of course it had engine restrictors, pretty much every car has to run them!
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joseff
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Joined: 24 Sep 2002, 11:53

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You're right. The Enzo has less hp and more weight, but I guess shorter gearing and (as we F1 fans know) 11 years of tire development means the Enzo should roast it.

The GTR has more realistic gearing (maybe on par with the Enzo) and it beat the original F1 for acceleration at any speed. But really, I still think the GTR was dumbed down. In racing form, it gets beaten time and again by modified F40s. But tune up an F40 in street-legal spec, and I doubt it'll ever touch the street Mac.

IMHO things the McLaren has (aircon, luggage compartments, CD changer, custom stereo) really sets it apart from the other supercars mentioned here. Don't blame me... I like practical cars :)

There are megaxotics out there, like John Carmack's 1000hp testarossa, countless Japanese R34 skylines, modified F40s, etc that would kick the F1's ass in several measures of performance, but the McLaren still strikes me as a very usable car that does what it does very well, day in day out.

Maybe I sound to McLaren-biased... which is true, but still the disturbing feeling I tried to share is this: the McLaren F1 was a freak happening, a moment of epiphany where everything just magically fell into place. With the current political & economic climate, will the Veyron finally be the world's last supercar? Is the Enzo going to be the best Ferrari will ever make? Have we seen the last of the world's supercars? Is Formula 1, with its obscene money-burning exercise and extravagant consumption of resources, going to be a doomed victim of its own success?

I have a feeling we're at the golden age of the automobile, where the only way from here is down. Of course, there are other folks who think that the 60's was the golden age, and that today's cars are lookalike blobs :)

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NickT
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Joined: 24 Sep 2003, 12:47
Location: Edinburgh, UK

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In terms of a complete and reliable package, nothing has yet to match the F1. Its bulletproof reliability, 3 passangers, luggage carrying ability, its size and packaging, usable performance and excelent chassis with a ride that doesn't leave your kidneys asking you to stop :!:

Yes there are cars that may do a couple of things better and even go faster, but nothing matches it as a complete package. :D 8) :twisted:

The GTR wasn't dumbed down in road going form, it only carried restrictors when racing :!:
NickT

Alex M3
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Joined: 29 Nov 2003, 22:49
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joseff wrote:You're right. The Enzo has less hp and more weight, but I guess shorter gearing and (as we F1 fans know) 11 years of tire development means the Enzo should roast it.
Actually the Enzo makes about 20-30hp more than the F1 as well as about 10 more ftlbs of torque.
joseff wrote:The GTR has more realistic gearing (maybe on par with the Enzo) and it beat the original F1 for acceleration at any speed. But really, I still think the GTR was dumbed down. In racing form, it gets beaten time and again by modified F40s. But tune up an F40 in street-legal spec, and I doubt it'll ever touch the street Mac.
When did the F40 LM ever get near an F1 GTR on the race circuit? At Le Mans in '95 the F40 managed a distant 12th overall while McLaren swept 1-3-4-5! The F40 has never even seen a Le Man podium, nor did it ever touch the F1 in the FIA GT series. The GTR has air restrictors because THOSE ARE THE RULES. Its a large displacement engine so it is penalized to level the field.. the street is where the F40 could be faster due to its a turbocharged induction. Its pretty easy to make big power when you're blowing double-digit psi into the chamber, so thats a moot argument. The GTR gearing was never released..
joseff wrote:IMHO things the McLaren has (aircon, luggage compartments, CD changer, custom stereo) really sets it apart from the other supercars mentioned here. Don't blame me... I like practical cars :)
A true purist!
joseff wrote:There are megaxotics out there, like John Carmack's 1000hp testarossa, countless Japanese R34 skylines, modified F40s, etc that would kick the F1's ass in several measures of performance, but the McLaren still strikes me as a very usable car that does what it does very well, day in day out.
Yes, $1million pricetag, $50,000 muffler replacements every 20k miles, and an insurance premium to break the bank. Very usable. I can see you've been watching Top Gear! ;) I agree, it is kind of soft, so it is nice on the road, this is why you need the LM setup. Skylines aren't exotics.

joseff wrote:Maybe I sound to McLaren-biased... which is true, but still the disturbing feeling I tried to share is this: the McLaren F1 was a freak happening, a moment of epiphany where everything just magically fell into place. With the current political & economic climate, will the Veyron finally be the world's last supercar? Is the Enzo going to be the best Ferrari will ever make? Have we seen the last of the world's supercars? Is Formula 1, with its obscene money-burning exercise and extravagant consumption of resources, going to be a doomed victim of its own success?
The F1 was nothing close to a freak happening. Gordan Murray claims to have had sketches of its basic design as early as 1978, it was only Ron Dennis who delayed the green light. It was a work in process for over a decade! The Veyron is anything but a supercar.. its a massive, overweight, shamefully powered beast. Who cares how much power it is. I think our Dodge Caravan is some 800lbs lighter. The Enzo is amazing, but thats because its brand new.. and don't worry, i've read in more than one source that McLaren has a new supercar on the drawing board.

The Enzo's weight baffles me. I dont see how you manage to make a carbon monocoque tip the scales at 3200lbs! Crazy. But it does have many advantages over the F1 that are the product of modern technology. More efficient output, advanced engine management/faster processors, massive carbon 380mm brakes, more advanced aero, gearbox, etc. But, the F1 has that amazing weight, central-driving position, BMW M POWER!, and a sweet design.. i think the Enzo looks better though.
joseff wrote:I have a feeling we're at the golden age of the automobile, where the only way from here is down. Of course, there are other folks who think that the 60's was the golden age, and that today's cars are lookalike blobs :)
I agree. Right now is as good as it gets. Alternative fuels, environmental concerns, and safety has dumbed down the performance of the true sports car. That is why i drive a 2700lb 1988 BMW M3 with a '98 M3 300hp (tuned) engine! Long live internal combustion.

Cheers!
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joseff
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Joined: 24 Sep 2002, 11:53

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:P too old to keep stats. Of course the Enzo has more bhp!

I also got the GTR and F1LM mixed up. My "low gearing" blah and blah was all about the F1LM that did the 0-100-0 run.

So you have an E30 M3 with euro-spec M50 straight six? Did you do the conversion yourself? Post the pics! :)

Sadly, the fastest BMW I've ever driven is an E46 330i sedan. And no, it wasn't mine.

Alex M3
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Joined: 29 Nov 2003, 22:49
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joseff wrote::P too old to keep stats. Of course the Enzo has more bhp!

I also got the GTR and F1LM mixed up. My "low gearing" blah and blah was all about the F1LM that did the 0-100-0 run.

So you have an E30 M3 with euro-spec M50 straight six? Did you do the conversion yourself? Post the pics! :)

Sadly, the fastest BMW I've ever driven is an E46 330i sedan. And no, it wasn't mine.
The LM is a different ball game.

Its a US-spec motor, 3.2L with the following modifications:
-86mm bore, with honed walls
-89.6mm 3.2L nitride-hardened forged crankshaft (factory new)
-11:1 machined pistons
-M3 135mm factory rods
-3.0 M3 camshafts
-Conical M3 valvetrain
-S52 valve retainers
-Full race headjob with heavy porting, valve reshaping, guide shaping, relief grinding, and valve job.
-OBDI wiring/ECU
-OBDI intake manifold
-21.5# Bosch injectors (flow tested by Active Autowerke)
-3.5" Euro MAF sensor
-Active Autowerke 3.5" air intake with K&N cone
-Active Autowerke custom software
-Active Autowerke 12lbs 240mm Aluminum flywheel (available with or without)
-Aluminum thermostat housing
-Late-model metal water pump impeller
-Low temp thermostat
-Balance and blueprint

It currently makes 250hp at the wheels. AA has a revised chip for me but i haven't installed it yet because its undergoing massive custom CF bodywork currently. I'm also planning solid lifter valvetrain, cams, oversize intake valves, full-length 6-2-1 header, oversize TB, pullies. The Euro motor is hot, but it doesn't work well in the E30, the US motor is a simple swap and much more practical.

We've sold over 50 of these conversions. We did the first one in the US (world?) in '92, and have done everything from 2.5's to screaming turbo 3.2's to euro 3.2's.

Back on topic in our off-topic thread! ;)
<a href="mailto:mchewa0@wfu.edu">Precision Performance Services Inc.</a>
Custom BMW race and high-performance street engines
(336)-761-0643
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<a href="mailto:mchewa0@wfu.edu">mchewa0@wfu.edu</a>

Mclaren11
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Joined: 13 May 2003, 22:54
Location: Columbus, Indiana, USA

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This may sound a little obsessive but if anyone knows anyting about owners of f1's and/or which chassis number they have I would appriciate the info

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joseff
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Joined: 24 Sep 2002, 11:53

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The ones I know:
- 1 was crashed by Bernd Pitschetsrieder (spelling, spelling) when still at BMW
- 1 was crashed by the head of Coca-cola Australia
- There's a guy who has two, a street spec and a GTR for his weekend track car.
- The sultan of Brunei must surely have more than one

The others you either have to ask McLaren :)

Or open your world atlas and single out the 3rd world dictatorships.