## What is the maximum angular velocity in the F1 season?

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bwjanderson
bwjanderson
0
Joined: Mon Mar 15, 2010 6:23 pm

### What is the maximum angular velocity in the F1 season?

Hi all,

I'm doing a university project on mechanical KERS and need to know the max angular velocity around a corner on the F1 circuit in order to work out gyro forces on a flywheel. I have no idea as to whether it'll be a low speed tight corner or a flat out easy bend. I'm guessing it's somewhere in between? Any ideas?

Cheers,

Ben

autogyro
autogyro
64
Joined: Sun Oct 04, 2009 2:03 pm

### Re: What is the maximum angular velocity in the F1 season?

bwjanderson wrote:Hi all,

I'm doing a university project on mechanical KERS and need to know the max angular velocity around a corner on the F1 circuit in order to work out gyro forces on a flywheel. I have no idea as to whether it'll be a low speed tight corner or a flat out easy bend. I'm guessing it's somewhere in between? Any ideas?

Cheers,

Ben
When you say 'mechanical Kers' I presume you mean 'flywheel storage device'?
The toloroidal CVT used to connect a purely kinetic energy flywheel with the cars drivetrain is very unlikely to be used in the future. The torque losses in the CVT are to high. The current flywheel storage devices are spun using induced electrical current from geartrain connected generator/motors. RPM is around 40,000
The effects of g forces produced in an F1 car on such flywheels will be negligable. Interesting project though.

Giblet
Giblet
16
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2007 12:47 am

### Re: What is the maximum angular velocity in the F1 season?

autogyro wrote:
bwjanderson wrote:Hi all,

I'm doing a university project on mechanical KERS and need to know the max angular velocity around a corner on the F1 circuit in order to work out gyro forces on a flywheel. I have no idea as to whether it'll be a low speed tight corner or a flat out easy bend. I'm guessing it's somewhere in between? Any ideas?

Cheers,

Ben
When you say 'mechanical Kers' I presume you mean 'flywheel storage device'?
The toloroidal CVT used to connect a purely kinetic energy flywheel with the cars drivetrain is very unlikely to be used in the future. The torque losses in the CVT are to high. The current flywheel storage devices are spun using induced electrical current from geartrain connected generator/motors. RPM is around 40,000
The effects of g forces produced in an F1 car on such flywheels will be negligable. Interesting project though.

The Williams unit was initially 1/3rd faster at 60,000rpm, and is now higher from what I read in Racecar Engineering, nearing 80,000.
Before I do anything I ask myself “Would an idiot do that?” And if the answer is yes, I do not do that thing. - Dwight Schrute

bill shoe
bill shoe
247
Joined: Wed Nov 19, 2008 7:18 am
Location: Dallas, Texas, USA

### Re: What is the maximum angular velocity in the F1 season?

I assume that by "maximum angular velocity" you're talking about the car rotating in yaw relative to the track.

The highest yaw velocity probably occurs during the brief moments when the rear end of the car starts to slide out during transients or power oversteer, etc. You would need to look at an on-board camera shot of some driver having the biggest "oh-sh*t moment" you can find. Then look at the video frame by frame. It will be easy to determine time between frames but it may be difficult to estimate the car's change in yaw angle relative to the track. Overall accuracy may be poor.

The highest steady-state yaw rotation will occur through corners. Specifically the slowest corners (low velocity but high rate of yaw rotation). The slowest corner in F1 is the Lowe's hairpin at Monaco, so this is where the maximum steady-state yaw velocity occurs. There should be lots of video of cars going around this. You should be able to time a reasonable clean 90 or 180 degree sweep around this and come up with a yaw rate. Accuracy here should be good.

Please let us know if you get a reasonably good estimate, I'm curious.

Tim.Wright
457
Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2009 5:29 am

### Re: What is the maximum angular velocity in the F1 season?

You can get a rough estimate pretty quick by watching some onboard videos.

Just divide the corner angle by the time taken through the curve and you will have an average.

For example, Lowes hairpin is about 180deg taken in maybe 1sec - this gives 180deg/sec
Copse corner silverstone, 90deg in 3s - 30deg/s

To usually the yaw rate is higher on corner entry than the average, so to find an approximate average you can increase these numbers by some fudge factor.

Probably a more accurate way would be to extract yaw rate data from an online racing sim like Rfactor or something. I think you can see the data logged in Motec interpreter and this would be a whole lot more accurate than what I mentioned above.

Yaw rate is a pretty easy number to get right. If the velocity of your "simulated" vehicle is close enough to a real F1 car, then the yaw rate will usually be pretty close. As long as the track geometry is correct that is.

Tim
Not the engineer at Force India

WhiteBlue
124
Joined: Mon Apr 14, 2008 7:58 pm
Location: WhiteBlue Country

### Re: What is the maximum angular velocity in the F1 season?

In case you misposted and meant acceleration the max values for cornering and braking are about 5 G.
Formula One's fundamental ethos is about success coming to those with the most ingenious engineering and best .............................. organization, not to those with the biggest budget. (Dave Richards)

Jersey Tom
Jersey Tom
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Joined: Mon May 29, 2006 7:49 pm
Location: Huntersville, NC

### Re: What is the maximum angular velocity in the F1 season?

High speed corners with heaps of DF might be taken at 5G... but the lower speed corners will probably be less I'd imagine.

Low speed corners have the highest yaw rates, by nature.
Grip is a four letter word. All opinions are my own and not those of current or previous employers.

Rushiraj
Rushiraj
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Joined: Sun Feb 18, 2018 2:23 pm

### Re: What is the maximum angular velocity in the F1 season?

What is the maximum value considered for yaw rate during cornering?
Does differential play role to avoid skidding during cornering?

Andres125sx
329
Joined: Tue Aug 13, 2013 9:15 am