Fuel comparison- road legal formula vs f1 formula

All that has to do with the power train, gearbox, clutch, fuels and lubricants, etc. Generally the mechanical side of Formula One.
hardingfv32
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Joined: 03 Apr 2011, 19:42

Re: Fuel comparison- road legal formula vs f1 formula

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strad wrote:
As far as I know F1 fuel is highly oxygenated.
In spite of what some think...Yes it is.
I was not being precise. F1 is limited to 3.7 wt%.

In the retail race fuel marketing terms, an oxygenated fuel is one that has 10% or more oxygen by weight.

In the USA we oxygenated gas for pollution control, what is the case in the rest of the world?

Brian
Last edited by hardingfv32 on 03 Apr 2012, 17:25, edited 1 time in total.

bigpat
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Joined: 29 Mar 2012, 01:50

Re: Fuel comparison- road legal formula vs f1 formula

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mep wrote:
bigpat wrote:3. Roadside fuel here, is $1.55 per litre. F1 spec fuel sells for $6.50 - $8.00 per Litre. Now you tell me how different they are...
Seriously why should somebody buy fuel that is 5 times more expensive?
It is clearly not worth it. Even the regular price of 1.55 is prolly already overprised.

Yes we in Australia think $1.55 for 91 octane is expensive too!

But F1 fuel DOES cost $6.50 per litre. Why would you buy it? Because it is best blend of fuel for what the current rules allow. The fuel will be composed of the most pure (synthetic where possible) additives, and precisely weighed and blended, on occasion for specific tracks, within the tolerances that the FIA allow for fuels.

Regular pump fuel varies a great deal in quality, so car manufacturers detune the engines somewhat to allow for this. F1 engines are designed and built to operate at the limit of what the fuels can give them, so the quality control of their fuel is much stricter.

Oh, and by the way, a team CAN use a different brand of fuel if they so wish (eg: sign a sponsorship deal mid season). It's the fuel suppliers that must supply the chromatograph footprint, not the teams.

In any case, besides Shell, Mobil, and Petronas, most of the grid use Elf/ Total fuel anyway.....

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raymondu999
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Re: Fuel comparison- road legal formula vs f1 formula

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How exactly do you folks know these figures of $6? Is it purchaseable or something where you folks live?
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Tommy Cookers
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Re: Fuel comparison- road legal formula vs f1 formula

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To whom it may concern ....... without malice !

Real F1 fuel has a much greater combustion speed than any other; pump fuel would lose around 100 bhp in a 17500rpm 108mm bore engine.
The permitted oxygen content allows something LIKE nitromethane (nothing to do with oxygenates in road fuel, these are to help octane rating without carcinogenic effects from benzene traditionally used)
Octane ? Octane is tested at 500 and 750 rpm in a standard test engine of 80 year old design,not 17500 rpm. Octane rating is detonation resistance at no more than 750 rpm, there is no other test.

Real F1 fuel is only like pump fuel 'on paper', a carefully chosen piece of paper !
Why would we expect otherwise ?

In 1988? I was told that Thierry Boutsen would win in Hungary, as they had got 38 bhp extra in the fuel. He did win

hardingfv32
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Re: Fuel comparison- road legal formula vs f1 formula

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Tommy Cookers wrote:To whom it may concern .......
I would recommend you compare the current F1 fuel rules to street gas specifications before making such a judgement.

Brian

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strad
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Re: Fuel comparison- road legal formula vs f1 formula

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Real F1 fuel is only like pump fuel 'on paper', a carefully chosen piece of paper !
Why would we expect otherwise ?
TRUTH!!!
To achieve anything, you must be prepared to dabble on the boundary of disaster.”
Sir Stirling Moss

Saribro
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Joined: 28 Jul 2006, 00:34

Re: Fuel comparison- road legal formula vs f1 formula

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Tommy Cookers wrote:Real F1 fuel has a much greater combustion speed than any other; pump fuel would lose around 100 bhp in a 17500rpm 108mm bore engine.
That's not what this ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbQZQUoy1L4 ) suggests.

Tommy Cookers
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Re: Fuel comparison- road legal formula vs f1 formula

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I have seen this before, thanks.

IMO the real stuff is still very expensive to produce even in small quantities and could not be supplied to the 1000cc MotoGP for this reason. This was basically a fuel consumption formula, the engines were clearly held to only about 13000 rpm. Now the 800cc MotoGP ran to about 17000.

My main point is that the Pump Fuel specifications cannot stop the development of very different fuels that still meet these specs, unless all road cars in the world use identical fuel. This situation has obtained since 1958.

hardingfv32
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Re: Fuel comparison- road legal formula vs f1 formula

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Tommy Cookers wrote: Pump Fuel specifications cannot stop the development of very different fuels that still meet these specs
Of coarse the term 'very different' is a little subjective. Why don't you describe one of the 'very different' components of the F1 fuel and how it scientifically differs from pumped gas in Europe or USA.

It is not a very big challenge to restrict the F1 fuel.

Brian

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strad
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Re: Fuel comparison- road legal formula vs f1 formula

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It's fingerprint...isn't that what the FIA call it? Would be WILDLY different than the premium at your local Shell station.
To achieve anything, you must be prepared to dabble on the boundary of disaster.”
Sir Stirling Moss

hardingfv32
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Re: Fuel comparison- road legal formula vs f1 formula

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strad wrote:It's fingerprint...isn't that what the FIA call it? Would be WILDLY different than the premium at your local Shell station.
I would say the correct statement is that the 'finger print' of a particular street gas is very different if taken at different station locations or times.

I am not sure what the purpose of the 'finger print' is. I do not think is actually represents a complete legality test of all the components. Maybe it is a way of marking a legal mixture that is easy to sample in the field.

Brian

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strad
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Re: Fuel comparison- road legal formula vs f1 formula

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Wrong...the fuel in the tank has to match the fingerprint submitted at the start of the season.AND according to people who believe F1 fuel is just like what they get at the pump,,as they imply. Which is pure BS. They do the same in NASCAR and other series,,it's a flat lie.
Tell ya what,,,get any racing fuel...get it on your hands...the stuff will bleach your skin white,,now dip your hand into some from the local pump..you know the stuff that smells and acts more like paint thinner these days..it won't evaporate as fast, won't bleach your skin and will leave an oily film. Ain't even close to the same.
To achieve anything, you must be prepared to dabble on the boundary of disaster.”
Sir Stirling Moss

hardingfv32
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Joined: 03 Apr 2011, 19:42

Re: Fuel comparison- road legal formula vs f1 formula

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But is a 'finger print' test the same as a complete fuel test? Why call it a 'finger print' if it is simply a fuel legality test? They seem to have added an extra level of administration for some reason.

Brian

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strad
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Re: Fuel comparison- road legal formula vs f1 formula

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Because each team has fuel specifically designed for them so they have to submit a fingerprint that shows it's legal and that it doesn't change...Another reason to not believe it's identicalness to pump fuel.
That's part of what upsets me about the lie.
They imply,,nay that say, that what they run is what you and I get..yeah right. IF that were true they could just fill up at the local Shell station but we know that ain't true.
Hell near as I can tell, fuel for the F1 teams is created not refined. It's made in a lab.
To achieve anything, you must be prepared to dabble on the boundary of disaster.”
Sir Stirling Moss

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raymondu999
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Re: Fuel comparison- road legal formula vs f1 formula

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strad wrote:Tell ya what,,,get any racing fuel...get it on your hands...the stuff will bleach your skin white.
You've put F1 fuel on your hand before? Not doubting you have - just asking.
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