Thermal Energy Recovery System Generator Motor (MGUH)

[Tommy Cookers]

....if the MGUH motor is actually between the cylinder heads like the Renault unit.
Also, if it is as long as the engine.
It is quite possible that the motor is of the axial design type with a long stator and rotor.
..... the motor could be jacketed and water cooled.

a motor of these proportions will be the more responsive (accelerating an inertial load)
and have more margin against whirl ?? and centrifugal stress
surely all these machines are to be liquid cooled ?

[Powerslide]

I thought thermal energy generator meant exchanging heat to electricity rather than via mechanical. it is simply having the turbo spin up a motor that is actually an anti-lag unit but made to do two chores instead. interesting though having generate load to produce electricity while boost Is on. it could be a method of controlling boost but heat would be a lot

[stevie60]

Hi there newbie here!
I am working on an Excel representation of MGU strategy and deployment with race and qualifying application, I have created ones for the braking energy from the MGU-K and now i'm looking into the MGU-H. I was just wondering how it is possible to calculate the power from the MGU-H over the engine speed range, notably aswell the threshold of when it goes from being a Motor to a generator?
The way i understand it, the rotational turbine speed needs to be known aswell as the minimum work required by the turbine to work the compressor, this i have calculated over the operating range, however I am now at a cul-de-sac in my mind! I was wondering if any of you would possibly be able to help? I have baseline calculations for the compressor, alongside power and torque FYI.

Ste

[riff_raff]

Very complicated to map precisely. Obviously, the motor function is when there is an input of electrical power to the stator, and the generator function is when there is power extracted from the stator. Coupling the compressor and turbine via the M/G is an effective way to optimize the performance of the turbo system by regulating their speed.

[bergie88]

In my opinion the MGU-H is used as a motor to spin up the turbocharger during the first part of acceleration, up till the point where the exhaust gasses are sufficient for optimal operation of the compressor. From that point the MGU-H will act as a generator, recovering the energy from the exhaust gasses which are normally lost through the waste gate. Due to the electric motor coupled with the turbocharger a (much) larger turbine and compressor wheel can be used compared with normal applications with this displacement volume and engine speed. It is assumed that the advantage of Mercedes last year was mainly caused by this phenomenon.

Adding of the MGU-H to the power units is for me the reason why I really like this engine formula. Combining turbocharged engines with hybrid powertrains in road cars might be the future, further increasing the total efficiency of the entire powertrain.

[godlameroso]

MGU-H speed = Turbo shaft speed which has a max rotational speed of 125,000rpm IIRC, it might be more, I don't remember exactly. You can also have the MGU-H clutched to the turbo shaft.

[gruntguru]

Due to the electric motor coupled with the turbocharger a (much) larger turbine and compressor wheel can be used compared with normal applications with this displacement volume and engine speed.

The compressor size is determined by the airflow and intake pressure requirements of the engine so is unaffected by the addition of the MGUH.

The turbine sizing is somewhat freed-up by the addition of the MGUH. Response at low engine outputs can be corrected by motoring with the MGUH allowing the turbine to be sized for maximum energy recovery at Pmax.

[PlatinumZealot]

If variable turbine geometry were allowed a few megajoules of battery energy could be saved... Less energy put towards spinning up the turbo.

[gruntguru]

Yes, and energy harvesting could be increased at most operating points - the fixed geometry system can only be optimised for one operating pint - probably max power.