A shameless image thread for the enginephiles

All that has to do with the power train, gearbox, clutch, fuels and lubricants, etc. Generally the mechanical side of Formula One.
Tommy Cookers
620
Joined: 17 Feb 2012, 16:55

Re: A shameless image thread for the enginephiles

Post

the Lion was a WW1-standard engine ie the cylinder/integral combustion chamber were 1 piece of steel
the valve seats were separate steel items that pulled the alloy head onto the combustion chamber
so cooling in critical areas was poor (as with all engines then)

the RR Kestrel of 1926 introduced bronze valve seats shrunk into the modern integral alloy head/combustion chamber
and a supercharger
said valve seats and sodium-cooled valves having been devised by Heron for radials
these innovations made obsolescent the Lion and everything else

J.A.W.
109
Joined: 01 Sep 2014, 05:10
Location: Altair IV.

Re: A shameless image thread for the enginephiles

Post

T-C - the venerable old Lion was good enough to hack another thousand hp over its original 450hp,
& enable John Cobb to wrest the LSR from the mighty R-R type R powered machine of George Eyston.

This was in 1939, & Cobb improved the speed post-war, so the Lion, a far from typical WW1 mill, was
still the LSR, & piston engine speed champ into the 1960s, not too shabby, at all..

Did Kestrel achieve many such merits? What was its best power output? Not enough for a Schneider Trophy?

Edit: Added evocative sporting image;

Image
Last edited by J.A.W. on 04 Apr 2018, 23:12, edited 1 time in total.
"Well, we knocked the bastard off!"

Ed Hilary on being 1st to top Mt Everest,
(& 1st to do a surface traverse across Antarctica,
in good Kiwi style - riding a Massey Ferguson farm
tractor - with a few extemporised mod's to hack the task).

roon
412
Joined: 17 Dec 2016, 19:04

Re: A shameless image thread for the enginephiles

Post

djos wrote:
04 Apr 2018, 11:03
gruntguru wrote:
04 Apr 2018, 06:32
No the supervisor has a large whip (out of shot).
I assume that's sarcasm?
What he means is, whips were used to pull the prop blades from a more safe distance, during fire up. Pilots could also hang one arm out the cockpit and use it to motivate the craft, reducing its take off distance. Comes from equestrian realms, where out-of-stall speed was often found to be too low.
Last edited by roon on 05 Apr 2018, 23:08, edited 1 time in total.

J.A.W.
109
Joined: 01 Sep 2014, 05:10
Location: Altair IV.

Re: A shameless image thread for the enginephiles

Post

That Sabre drives a 14ft diameter prop, so it would be a big ask..

Ask 'Pinkie' Stark..

Image
"Well, we knocked the bastard off!"

Ed Hilary on being 1st to top Mt Everest,
(& 1st to do a surface traverse across Antarctica,
in good Kiwi style - riding a Massey Ferguson farm
tractor - with a few extemporised mod's to hack the task).

Tommy Cookers
620
Joined: 17 Feb 2012, 16:55

Re: A shameless image thread for the enginephiles

Post

I've seen the 20ish litre RR V12 (4 blade prop) in a WW1 Bristol fighter being hand started by the Armstrong method
man 1 pulling the prop blade with 1 arm, man 2 pulling with 1 arm man 1's other arm, and man 3 pulling man 2's other arm
if the man 1/man 2 link fails man 1 gets killed by the next blade along when the engine fires


of course run on methanol eg 70/30 methanol/benzole the Lion (supercharged) could temporarily avoid valve etc cooling issues
the really clever thing about the Railton was Mr Railton's novel lightweight design (and the aero)
it made Thunderbolt look like the world's fastest plough (it was)
my teacher had a Railton (straight 8 Hudson engine)

RR got the job (of improving on the Curtiss V12 for the British nation) because Napier refused it
the Lion designer Rowledge had already left Napier for RR
and later Napier produced a Merlin rival that had 12 independent cylinders

smaller than the Lion the Kestrel ran on 70ish octane and later (Peregrine) was rated at 875 hp on 80 octane
ran for hundreds of hours not hundreds of seconds

people might try a search for the marine use of the Lion (eg where recent Lion-powered racers got their engines ?)

J.A.W.
109
Joined: 01 Sep 2014, 05:10
Location: Altair IV.

Re: A shameless image thread for the enginephiles

Post

T-C, Kestrel was of 22 litre capacity, Lion was 24.. really not so much - in it..

R-R went to 36 litres for their type R ( and Lion designer Rowledge had to revise it, with master/slave rods),
& later using the same archaic under-square B x S dimensions for the 'improved Merlin' style, Griffon..

R-R never seemed to get their own atypical designs to function properly ( viz: Vulture) but did well
with developing the nuts off their conservative V12's - to good profit, even if the Griffon was also
well shaded by the ( also 36 litre capacity) Halford/Tryon designed Napier Sabre - as a fighter mill..
"Well, we knocked the bastard off!"

Ed Hilary on being 1st to top Mt Everest,
(& 1st to do a surface traverse across Antarctica,
in good Kiwi style - riding a Massey Ferguson farm
tractor - with a few extemporised mod's to hack the task).

Tommy Cookers
620
Joined: 17 Feb 2012, 16:55

Re: A shameless image thread for the enginephiles

Post

the W12 designer is desperate over the large hole made in the air (and the pilot view) by that layout - so reduces stroke
the V12 makes a much smaller hole - the Liberty used 45 deg

re the 'archaic' undersquare - it was preferred by everyone else - especially Bristol
it gives better efficiency by allowing higher CR and by giving less heat loss

no WW so far has had engine rules - unlike motor sport with its (bogus) so-called capacity limits

johnny comelately
110
Joined: 10 Apr 2015, 00:55
Location: Australia

Re: A shameless image thread for the enginephiles

Post

Can I ask why engines like the V12 Merlin are upside down?


J.A.W.
109
Joined: 01 Sep 2014, 05:10
Location: Altair IV.

Re: A shameless image thread for the enginephiles

Post

Tommy Cookers wrote:
05 Apr 2018, 12:24
the W12 designer is desperate over the large hole made in the air (and the pilot view) by that layout - so reduces stroke
the V12 makes a much smaller hole - the Liberty used 45 deg

re the 'archaic' undersquare - it was preferred by everyone else - especially Bristol
it gives better efficiency by allowing higher CR and by giving less heat loss

no WW so far has had engine rules - unlike motor sport with its (bogus) so-called capacity limits

Oddly T-C, Seagrave's 'Golden Arrow' & the S-T winning Supermarine S5 seemed to have the
Lion 'streamlined',
Image

& in any case, Napier did offer an inverted version, the 'Lioness'..
( & no Johnny, Merlins weren't - but the German V12's were, to no major advantage, ostensibly an improved view for the pilot was the reason, but it caused many problems, too..)

Raw swept volume was not such a big deal T-C, no.. but other engine efficacy norms certainly were..
"Well, we knocked the bastard off!"

Ed Hilary on being 1st to top Mt Everest,
(& 1st to do a surface traverse across Antarctica,
in good Kiwi style - riding a Massey Ferguson farm
tractor - with a few extemporised mod's to hack the task).

J.A.W.
109
Joined: 01 Sep 2014, 05:10
Location: Altair IV.

Re: A shameless image thread for the enginephiles

Post

So Johnny, is this one an 'April fool'?
Or is it - a development of the Aussie bulit.. ah I mean built.. 'Carbury' - Royal Oilfield-based V-twin machine?

( Though it does also resemble an 'S&S' H-D clone, morphed with a Vincent-like top-end)..
"Well, we knocked the bastard off!"

Ed Hilary on being 1st to top Mt Everest,
(& 1st to do a surface traverse across Antarctica,
in good Kiwi style - riding a Massey Ferguson farm
tractor - with a few extemporised mod's to hack the task).

J.A.W.
109
Joined: 01 Sep 2014, 05:10
Location: Altair IV.

Re: A shameless image thread for the enginephiles

Post

Tommy Cookers wrote:
05 Apr 2018, 12:24
the W12 designer is desperate over the large hole made in the air (and the pilot view) by that layout - so reduces stroke
the V12 makes a much smaller hole - the Liberty used 45 deg

re the 'archaic' undersquare - it was preferred by everyone else - especially Bristol
it gives better efficiency by allowing higher CR and by giving less heat loss..
T-C, no WW I aircraft designer worth his technical salt, would favour a cruddy Liberty* over a Lion,
nor did aero-slick cowlings take precedence over power-to-weight, back then..

As for the Bristol mills staying undersquare, I'd dispute your reasoning, since the oversquare sleeve-valve Sabre had 'em beat on those "efficiency" grounds, surely the real reason was basic - S.I. bore diameter limitations,
& a needing a "much smaller hole", for combustion efficacy..

* Many a British tank crew in WW II, lumbered with an awful Nuffield-built Liberty engine, would've
killed to swap it for a reliable Sea-Lion, as fitted to the RAF's Air-Min sponsored high-speed launches..
"Well, we knocked the bastard off!"

Ed Hilary on being 1st to top Mt Everest,
(& 1st to do a surface traverse across Antarctica,
in good Kiwi style - riding a Massey Ferguson farm
tractor - with a few extemporised mod's to hack the task).

johnny comelately
110
Joined: 10 Apr 2015, 00:55
Location: Australia

Re: A shameless image thread for the enginephiles

Post

J.A.W. wrote:
05 Apr 2018, 14:00
So Johnny, is this one an 'April fool'?
Or is it - a development of the Aussie bulit.. ah I mean built.. 'Carbury' - Royal Oilfield-based V-twin machine?

( Though it does also resemble an 'S&S' H-D clone, morphed with a Vincent-like top-end)..
Apparently not (an April Fools joke) - Most folk nowadays know the Mugen name from its electric racebikes, particularly those run at the Isle of Man TT each year. But the firm has a fascinating history, closely linked with Honda cars and bikes. Mugen (meaning ‘infinite’ or ‘unlimited') was set up by Soichiro Honda’s son, Hirotoshi, in the early 1970s, and has produced aftermarket parts and tuning packages for road and race Hondas, on both two and four wheels, ever since.
Now, though, Mugen has shown a new engine concept on its Tokyo bike show stand. The design – for a four-valve OHV air-cooled 1,400cc V-twin – has its roots in a near-mythical bike Mugen built in the 1970s, the MRV1000. That prototype used a one-off 1,000cc twin-carbed engine design, which looked a lot like the classic Vincent V-twin engine from the 1950s. But the MRV would have been too expensive to build back then, and never made it into production.
Fast forward forty years, and Mugen is now thinking about doing something similar again. A mock-up of an all-new V-twin engine sat next to the new Mugen electric TT racebike on the Mugen stand, with a design drawing of a sleek naked roadster and a request for feedback on whether the firm should make the new ‘MRV1400’.

from - http://www.visordown.com/motorcycle-new ... in-concept

I found it interesting because of their F1 history:
In 1991 Mugen prepared Honda V10 engines for Tyrrell but the following year these engines were renamed Mugen MF351H and were transferred to the Footwork team, with drivers Aguri Suzuki and Michele Alboreto. In 1993, Mugen remained affiliated with Footwork and created a B version of the MF351H, used by Aguri Suzuki and Derek Warwick.

At the end of the year, Mugen switched to Team Lotus with plans for a new Lotus 109. The team - with drivers Johnny Herbert and Pedro Lamy (later replaced by Alessandro Zanardi) - was underfunded and the 109 chassis was late arriving. The Mugen engine, codenamed ZA5C, was not able to show its full potential and, after Lotus closed at the end of the year, Mugen switched to the Ligier team, which was then being run for Flavio Briatore by Tom Walkinshaw, with drivers Olivier Panis, Martin Brundle and Aguri Suzuki. The 3.0 L engine, conforming to the new regulations, was codenamed MF301H. The connection with Ligier resulted in Mugen's first Formula One victory at the 1996 Monaco Grand Prix with Panis at the wheel.

The team was taken over by Alain Prost in 1997, and the newly named Prost Grand Prix ran MF301H-B engines with Jarno Trulli leading the Austrian Grand Prix before suffering engine failure. With Prost establishing a relationship with Peugeot in 1998, Mugen looked for a new partner and reached a two-year agreement with Jordan Grand Prix for which Mugen produced the MF301H-C engine. The 1998 season was not a success until Spa-Francorchamps, when Jordan drivers Damon Hill and Ralf Schumacher scored a 1-2 finish.

The 1999 season resulted in further success with Heinz-Harald Frentzen winning twice, but then the Honda Motor Company announced that it would be returning with its own engines in 2000 with British American Racing. Mugen pulled out of F1 at the end of the 2000 season leaving Honda to supply the engines to Jordan as well.

The giveaway was that they had separate inlets.

johnny comelately
110
Joined: 10 Apr 2015, 00:55
Location: Australia

Re: A shameless image thread for the enginephiles

Post

Caterpillar/VW TDI, V10 (90o) cyl, 4 stroke, diesel engine
4921cc, 81.0 x 95.5 mm
1050 Nm @ 2500 RPM
cast aluminium alloy head, low-pressure die-cast aluminium alloy (AlSi8Cu3) block bolted-on grey cast iron bearing tunnel and crank carrier with 6 main bearings, die-forged steel cross-plane crankshaft with 18-degree crankpin offset to achieve a 72-degree even firing order, contra-rotating balance shaft, 88mm bore spacing
18.0:1 (Street version)
forged steel crankshaft with 6 main bearings
SOHC gear driven, 2 valves/cyl - 20 valves total
2 x Garrett GT1852V turbochargers with Pectel multipoint electronic fuel direct injection (TDI). 2 x 32.7mm inlet restrictors
dry sump
Image

bill shoe
151
Joined: 19 Nov 2008, 08:18
Location: Dallas, Texas, USA

Re: A shameless image thread for the enginephiles

Post

johnny comelately wrote:
12 Apr 2018, 20:56
Caterpillar/VW TDI, V10 (90o) cyl, 4 stroke, diesel engine
Image
From Wikipedia:
This '4.9' or '5.0' badged V10 TDI diesel engine is only used in Volkswagen Passenger Cars 'premium' models. At its launch in the Volkswagen Phaeton, it became the most powerful diesel-engined car in the world. A heavily modified dry sump version was used in an LMP1 Lola sports car to compete in the 2004 Le Mans under a Caterpillar badge.
Torque and engine speed work out to 369 hp. Probably very difficult to compete at a speed circuit like LeMans with only 369 hp, even back in 2004. But it does meet the now-lost spirit of running street-based engines.

Post Reply