Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

All that has to do with the power train, gearbox, clutch, fuels and lubricants, etc. Generally the mechanical side of Formula One.
etusch
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Re: Honda Power Unit

Post by etusch » Fri Dec 08, 2017 12:47 pm

Chicane wrote:
Fri Dec 08, 2017 12:22 pm
1) Majority of Honda failures were ''HEAT'' related failures of MGU-H. Honda struggled pretty much entire season barring the last three races with MGU-H bearing failures. So how a Mclaren technician installing those components is beyond my comprehension.

2) Hasegawa is a principled man who spoke the facts and not try to spin it in to Honda vs McLaren.

3) Recent article points out to how without Mclaren's help Honda may not even have made it to the grid in Melbourne 2017. These are not my words but words of Honda's Nakamura.

4) Nakamura has only good things to say about Mclaren as to how up until the second preseason test Mclaren were encouraging and supporting Honda but once Honda failed to keep their end of the bargain where they had promised earlier that they will have a working reliable PU in second preseason test things started going south.
Nobody said all failures from McLaren. So remember what Hasegawa said after a retirement of Alonso. "There's any problem with PU"
Remember what Wazari san said about where some mgu-h parts coming from.
It seems you don't know importance of packing for cooling

dren
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Re: Honda Power Unit

Post by dren » Fri Dec 08, 2017 1:28 pm

Does it really matter at this point who did what? The partnership was a failure.

On to 2018, an evolved but new PU with what should be a decent power and efficiency boost relative to the competition.

Wazari, can you by any chance share any technical information on how the Honda ERS worked or what sort of combustion the ICE was using?
Honda!

Chicane
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Re: Honda Power Unit

Post by Chicane » Fri Dec 08, 2017 2:03 pm

etusch wrote:
Fri Dec 08, 2017 12:47 pm
Chicane wrote:
Fri Dec 08, 2017 12:22 pm
1) Majority of Honda failures were ''HEAT'' related failures of MGU-H. Honda struggled pretty much entire season barring the last three races with MGU-H bearing failures. So how a Mclaren technician installing those components is beyond my comprehension.

2) Hasegawa is a principled man who spoke the facts and not try to spin it in to Honda vs McLaren.

3) Recent article points out to how without Mclaren's help Honda may not even have made it to the grid in Melbourne 2017. These are not my words but words of Honda's Nakamura.

4) Nakamura has only good things to say about Mclaren as to how up until the second preseason test Mclaren were encouraging and supporting Honda but once Honda failed to keep their end of the bargain where they had promised earlier that they will have a working reliable PU in second preseason test things started going south.
Nobody said all failures from McLaren. So remember what Hasegawa said after a retirement of Alonso. "There's any problem with PU"
Remember what Wazari san said about where some mgu-h parts coming from.
It seems you don't know importance of packing for cooling
Mclaren deal with external packaging and not with internal heat dissipation. MGU-H cooling is something dealt purely by Honda. Honda did not suffer from external packaging issues in 2017.
Quickshifter

gofast182
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Re: Honda Power Unit

Post by gofast182 » Fri Dec 08, 2017 3:04 pm

Chicane, if you really want to re-hash this, you might go back and look at what the cause of each failure was reported as 48h after each Grand Prix (versus during the race or immediately after). Make no mistake, Honda holds most of the blame; however, there were non-Honda failures that were attributed to them in the moment because it was easy to do and they were met with little defense from Honda. Just because Hasegawa kept it classy doesn't mean it was right or fair.

It's all water under the bridge at this point.

FW17
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Re: Honda Power Unit

Post by FW17 » Fri Dec 08, 2017 3:21 pm

Hasegawa was smart

W does not know what he is wishing for

If Hasegawa had defended anything anything, he would have dragged Honda into mud, atleast now there is some sympathy towards Honda and the Brand. The western media would have torn Hasegawa a new one if he even attempted to pull some stunt like what Cyril pulled. You cant compare Red Bull and Marko which was seen as Nazi by English media to Mclaren.

Hasegawa would have got some brownie points in Japan, but english media would have made sure Honda were buried in terms of mass opinion

McHonda
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Re: Honda Power Unit

Post by McHonda » Fri Dec 08, 2017 7:47 pm

Exactly. Hasegawa was smart and didn't try to deflect which would have been met with even more leaks from McLaren about the true state of the PU and the British press going after them for blaming McLaren.

He was dealing with as big of a grenade as the engine was and he conducted himself perfectly imo and actually limited the damage done to Honda by doing so.

DFX
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Re: Honda Power Unit

Post by DFX » Fri Dec 08, 2017 9:50 pm

techman wrote:
Fri Dec 08, 2017 9:31 pm
mclaren will not get a positive response from renault cyril if they abuse them verbally in public unlike hasegawa, who simply is a weak leader who cant defend honda when mclaren mechanics stuff things up and blame goes to honda. hope they are ready for the change or the renault verbal attack. and this era if you are weak and dumb, you have no place in this world and you will get drop , that what happened to hasegawa. honda did the smartest thing to move him aside
I dont think you know what a strong leader is, It's easy to say this sort of stuff in hindsight. Hasegawa did the best he could at the time, he knew the package that they had and how it was lacking in performance overall. Entering a blame game with Mclaren, although would appease the technicians and engineears, would not benefit Honda, quite the opposite. They did what they had to, look down and work hard to solve the problems.

Mclaren was quite polite if you compare the relantionship between Renault and RB. I cant even imagine what RB, Horner and Marko, would have done in Mclaren's position.

Squid
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Re: Honda Power Unit

Post by Squid » Fri Dec 08, 2017 11:24 pm

I'm so happy McLaren and Honda are done with each other. Some comments here are a perfect illustration of why that relationship was extremely toxic and one-sided. McLaren was all too happy to push all the blame to Honda, and Honda had no option but to accept it? That's what we call an abusive relationship.

Give credit where credit is due, and place blame where blame is deserved.

HPD
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Re: Honda Power Unit

Post by HPD » Fri Dec 08, 2017 11:25 pm

"Accept our own mistakes"
It is the summary of all this discussion. It's not about facing Honda vs. Mclaren.

The problem of the oil tank in the preseason. How long after we learned that it was a problem of Mclaren and not of Honda? (Read hasegawa interviews on the official website of honda).

This is a good example, a whole year, and people still criticize Honda for the oil tank, and it really was a problem for Mclaren. Why did Hasegawa remain silent for so long?

McHonda
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Re: Honda Power Unit

Post by McHonda » Fri Dec 08, 2017 11:58 pm

HPD wrote:
Fri Dec 08, 2017 11:25 pm
"Accept our own mistakes"
It is the summary of all this discussion. It's not about facing Honda vs. Mclaren.

The problem of the oil tank in the preseason. How long after we learned that it was a problem of Mclaren and not of Honda? (Read hasegawa interviews on the official website of honda).

This is a good example, a whole year, and people still criticize Honda for the oil tank, and it really was a problem for Mclaren. Why did Hasegawa remain silent for so long?
Can we get a summary? I looked but couldn't see it.

RonDennis
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Re: Honda Power Unit

Post by RonDennis » Sat Dec 09, 2017 12:07 am

McHonda wrote:
Fri Dec 08, 2017 11:58 pm
HPD wrote:
Fri Dec 08, 2017 11:25 pm
"Accept our own mistakes"
It is the summary of all this discussion. It's not about facing Honda vs. Mclaren.

The problem of the oil tank in the preseason. How long after we learned that it was a problem of Mclaren and not of Honda? (Read hasegawa interviews on the official website of honda).

This is a good example, a whole year, and people still criticize Honda for the oil tank, and it really was a problem for Mclaren. Why did Hasegawa remain silent for so long?
Can we get a summary? I looked but couldn't see it.
"We have a rig for the oil tank but we cannot recreate the same types of G-forces and conditions as in the car. Of course, by design, we have to consider the actual car situation in theory, but sometimes it is not always the same situation so that is why we had some issues with the oil tank first."

http://news.abs-cbn.com/sports/07/22/17 ... son-of-woe

HPD wrote:
Fri Dec 08, 2017 11:25 pm
"Accept our own mistakes"
It is the summary of all this discussion. It's not about facing Honda vs. Mclaren.

The problem of the oil tank in the preseason. How long after we learned that it was a problem of Mclaren and not of Honda? (Read hasegawa interviews on the official website of honda).

This is a good example, a whole year, and people still criticize Honda for the oil tank, and it really was a problem for Mclaren. Why did Hasegawa remain silent for so long?

Wazari
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Re: Honda Power Unit

Post by Wazari » Sat Dec 09, 2017 12:45 am

FW17 wrote:
Fri Dec 08, 2017 3:21 pm
Hasegawa was smart

W does not know what he is wishing for

If Hasegawa had defended anything anything, he would have dragged Honda into mud, atleast now there is some sympathy towards Honda and the Brand. The western media would have torn Hasegawa a new one if he even attempted to pull some stunt like what Cyril pulled. You cant compare Red Bull and Marko which was seen as Nazi by English media to Mclaren.

Hasegawa would have got some brownie points in Japan, but english media would have made sure Honda were buried in terms of mass opinion
I do not know what I'm wishing for? Just a little more transparency. That's all. Some people bring up cooling and claim it's all Honda's doing as McLaren had nothing to do with the "internals". That couldn't be further from the truth as an example. Why wasn't it disclosed that Honda's proposed and recommended cooling package was dismissed as it would "compromise" the aero work and Plan C cooling package had to be implemented against Honda's initial wishes. That's just one example. There are many others. Sorry, I'm just venting.

Anyway, as others have mentioned it's water under the bridge.
If you can make the opposition flinch, you have already won.

Squid
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Re: Honda Power Unit

Post by Squid » Sat Dec 09, 2017 1:38 am

Genuinely excited to see what a true no-compromises all-Honda engine will be like. 2018 is the make or break year for Honda I feel, and if Toro Rosso / Red Bull will let them do their own thing as it appears that they will, then I'm (cautiosly) optimistic.

techman
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Re: Honda Power Unit

Post by techman » Sat Dec 09, 2017 8:31 am

I dont think you know what a strong leader is
so in your opinion a strong leader should not defend the team when the problem was due to other teams fault and you should accept defeat and say its ours? is that you definition of strong leader. no person wants to work for a leader who cant defend the team and give support.
Some people bring up cooling and claim it's all Honda's doing as McLaren had nothing to do with the "internals". That couldn't be further from the truth as an example. Why wasn't it disclosed that Honda's proposed and recommended cooling package was dismissed as it would "compromise" the aero work and Plan C cooling package had to be implemented against Honda's initial wishes.
perfect example thanks wazari

restless
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Re: Honda Power Unit

Post by restless » Sat Dec 09, 2017 11:11 am

HPD wrote:
Fri Dec 08, 2017 11:25 pm
"Accept our own mistakes"
It is the summary of all this discussion. It's not about facing Honda vs. Mclaren.

The problem of the oil tank in the preseason. How long after we learned that it was a problem of Mclaren and not of Honda? (Read hasegawa interviews on the official website of honda).

This is a good example, a whole year, and people still criticize Honda for the oil tank, and it really was a problem for Mclaren. Why did Hasegawa remain silent for so long?
Please show where was said that oil-tank problem as due to McLaren ?!
Never read anything about that.