Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

All that has to do with the power train, gearbox, clutch, fuels and lubricants, etc. Generally the mechanical side of Formula One.

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etusch
131
Joined: 22 Feb 2009, 23:09
Location: Turkey

Re: Honda Power Unit

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İf 700 kw romour is true they are not much behind it.

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loner
16
Joined: 26 Feb 2016, 18:34

Re: Honda Power Unit

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etusch wrote:
14 Feb 2018, 17:31
İf 700 kw romour is true they are not much behind it.
they are... , thats why they keep talking about wait until half season :mrgreen:
they doing it since 2015 when they said wait until the European races :mrgreen:
wazari spec 4 in 2017 Spa and Monza :lol:
para bellum.

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amho
1
Joined: 30 Apr 2015, 21:15
Location: Iran

Re: Honda Power Unit

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If honda can really increase power by 30-40 hp (as said previously) and more importantly improve fuel efficiency and duration of e-deployment then they can really make a significant progress in race.
Last year they were fuel saving all the time during race and once they were not fuel saving their laptime was quite competive, imagine in 2018 they don't have fuel saving for 40 laps then they can gain 25 -30 sec which makes difference...
Last edited by Steven on 15 Feb 2018, 20:47, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Remove quote of deleted post
There is no Might or Power except with Allah.

toraabe
12
Joined: 09 Oct 2014, 10:42

Re: Honda Power Unit

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It is the MGU-H where Honda has to improve---

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Big Mangalhit
27
Joined: 03 Dec 2015, 15:39

Re: Honda Power Unit

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Since they used something like 9 ICE's and TC's I don't think MGU-H is the only thing they need to improve. Also it's hard to predict what will happen in the tests- Last year by this time everybody was saying they needed to improve energy deployment and efficiency and nobody was saying they needed to improve the oil chamber and MGU-H bearings. And yet they really needed to take care of that and almost had no teste because of such. Hopefully this year they'll start with the right foot.

techman
-5
Joined: 09 Jun 2016, 10:25

Re: Honda Power Unit

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the mguh was one of the big headaches they had in 2017 and apprantly it was build by a third party . now that honda are saying they will do everything on their own. hopefully they come up with the mgu h reliability issue fix. i reckon honda will have a decent power by mid season. hopefully enough for a marko satisfaction and redbull honda 2019.

bonjon1979
30
Joined: 11 Feb 2009, 17:16

Re: Honda Power Unit

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I really hope that Honda smash it this year. The last three years suggest that it might be a tall order but it would be lovely if they came with something competitive.

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godlameroso
309
Joined: 16 Jan 2010, 21:27
Location: Miami FL

Re: Honda Power Unit

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Between Abu Dhabi and winter testing Honda will show a decent improvement. I reckon Alonso could have dipped into the 37's with the 2018 spec power unit. So 1.7 seconds off the pace instead of 2.4 seconds. Or a few tenths behind Red Bull, which is where I expect McLaren to be next year.
Saishū kōnā

McHonda
10
Joined: 06 Apr 2017, 02:33

Re: Honda Power Unit

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The problem is still that everyone else improves too. We've seen pretty consistent gaps between the EM's since mid season 2015 with only incremental gains on their target for each.

Ferrari not far from Mercedes
Renault not far from Ferrari
Honda not far from Renault

Development time is just too long with these units because of the knock on effects elsewhere and adjustments needed in just about every area of the hybrid side after each gain in combustion to get the most out of it.

We've only really seen one big jump in the entire V6 era and that had some pretty specific circumstances with Ferrari leapfrogging Renault over the winter in 2014/15 by signing Cedric Cornebois and a dozen other Mercedes engine guys while Mahle brought them TJI while conversely Renault had a complete nightmare and took a step backwards during the whole founding the works team/Red Bull feud/Illien split project in 2015. They were also pretty close to begin with, Renault's ERS putting them slightly ahead during 2014.

The current landscape doesn't offer anything close to that level of such differing climates between two teams right now so I just can't see much change to that running order without Mercedes first hitting the ceiling unfortunately, although I'd obviously love to be wrong for the sake of competition.

GhostF1
110
Joined: 30 Aug 2016, 04:11

Re: Honda Power Unit

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Big Mangalhit wrote:
15 Feb 2018, 18:03
Since they used something like 9 ICE's and TC's I don't think MGU-H is the only thing they need to improve. Also it's hard to predict what will happen in the tests- Last year by this time everybody was saying they needed to improve energy deployment and efficiency and nobody was saying they needed to improve the oil chamber and MGU-H bearings. And yet they really needed to take care of that and almost had no teste because of such. Hopefully this year they'll start with the right foot.
This has been discussed to death. The major Achilles heel was the MGU-H, it was literally the root cause of failure 99% of the time, I believe Canada was an actual ICE issue where Hasegawa was quoted as being shocked, as it was the first time they'd seen this issue before.

It was developed by McLaren and other outside companies. The issue was exacerbated by the oil blow by from the Honda PU. Hard to fine tune this when it isn't your own component.
Several occasions the MGU-H detonated and terminally damaged the entire PU due to its location.

Honda have since stated they intend to utilise their own design they have been working on, however they also said some of the "Hybrid componentry" will still need to be sourced from McLaren at the start, but it will eventually become an entirely Honda affair. When that will be, I'd probably think mid season. Either way, bring on the car reveals, testing and the Aus GP pls. This wait is killing me now

McMika98
-24
Joined: 18 Feb 2017, 22:40

Re: Honda Power Unit

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Sadly, it appears the new Honda unit will be trialling all 3 other manufacturers like it has done the last 3 years. :( The nightmare still continues in 2018 by the looks of things.

Straight from the horse's mouth, Dr Marko is quoted on amus that after having run RA618 equivalent (spec 4,5.0) on test benches, he thinks that Honda may catch Renault around midseason! So i guess all the pre season hype and speculation can go straight in the bin. Merc having proven reliability last year, will most definitely raise the power while the remainders try to get the reliability in place. Its going to be another Mercedes domination, yawn.

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godlameroso
309
Joined: 16 Jan 2010, 21:27
Location: Miami FL

Re: Honda Power Unit

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McMika98 wrote:
16 Feb 2018, 00:16
Sadly, it appears the new Honda unit will be trialling all 3 other manufacturers like it has done the last 3 years. :( The nightmare still continues in 2018 by the looks of things.

Straight from the horse's mouth, Dr Marko is quoted on amus that after having run RA618 equivalent (spec 4,5.0) on test benches, he thinks that Honda may catch Renault around midseason! So i guess all the pre season hype and speculation can go straight in the bin. Merc having proven reliability last year, will most definitely raise the power while the remainders try to get the reliability in place. Its going to be another Mercedes domination, yawn.
Catch this year's Renault.
Saishū kōnā

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PlatinumZealot
550
Joined: 12 Jun 2008, 03:45

Re: Honda Power Unit

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Still acceptable. All the engines will be very close by then.
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Squid
3
Joined: 08 Jun 2017, 00:55

Re: Honda Power Unit

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GhostF1 wrote:
15 Feb 2018, 22:28
Big Mangalhit wrote:
15 Feb 2018, 18:03
Since they used something like 9 ICE's and TC's I don't think MGU-H is the only thing they need to improve. Also it's hard to predict what will happen in the tests- Last year by this time everybody was saying they needed to improve energy deployment and efficiency and nobody was saying they needed to improve the oil chamber and MGU-H bearings. And yet they really needed to take care of that and almost had no teste because of such. Hopefully this year they'll start with the right foot.
This has been discussed to death. The major Achilles heel was the MGU-H, it was literally the root cause of failure 99% of the time, I believe Canada was an actual ICE issue where Hasegawa was quoted as being shocked, as it was the first time they'd seen this issue before.

It was developed by McLaren and other outside companies. The issue was exacerbated by the oil blow by from the Honda PU. Hard to fine tune this when it isn't your own component.
Several occasions the MGU-H detonated and terminally damaged the entire PU due to its location.

Honda have since stated they intend to utilise their own design they have been working on, however they also said some of the "Hybrid componentry" will still need to be sourced from McLaren at the start, but it will eventually become an entirely Honda affair. When that will be, I'd probably think mid season. Either way, bring on the car reveals, testing and the Aus GP pls. This wait is killing me now
And even when the TC and ICE survived, might as well change them for new units since they will be starting at the back anyway. Good for implementing small upgrades and to get more mileage out of the parts.

The engine component usage chart made the other components look unreliable when they were actually fine.

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