Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

All that has to do with the power train, gearbox, clutch, fuels and lubricants, etc. Generally the mechanical side of Formula One.
PlatinumZealot
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Re: Honda Power Unit

Post by PlatinumZealot » Tue May 29, 2018 4:35 pm

The power figures don't matter to us if the car cannot put it down on the track.

I say keep and eye on the wing level carried, the top speed of the car and if there is any fuel saving. Only then will we know.
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Thunder18
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Re: Honda Power Unit

Post by Thunder18 » Tue May 29, 2018 5:00 pm

Thunder18 wrote:
Tue May 29, 2018 4:14 pm
ArcticWolfie wrote:
Tue May 29, 2018 4:12 pm
Thunder18 wrote:
Tue May 29, 2018 3:52 pm

With the two separate sources quoting different figure gains, could one be race (+27) and one be Qualifying (+40)??
27 and 40 is quite a bit.. where did you see those figures?
on here, a page or 2 back
here's one article, maybe I got confused....
https://www.f1today.net/en/news/f1/2379 ... for-canada

loner
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Re: Honda Power Unit

Post by loner » Tue May 29, 2018 5:43 pm

RZS10 wrote:
Tue May 29, 2018 3:24 pm
But we know, as does he, numbers on dyno ≠ numbers on track, especially for Honda
or it is .. i do prefer to not trust Honda's ex partner :wink:
beside there were talking about honda upgrading their dynos last year
para bellum.

RZS10
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Re: Honda Power Unit

Post by RZS10 » Tue May 29, 2018 8:49 pm

@loner: I think it's fair to believe them in this instance, mainly because that info came from Honda themselves, but i'm sick of the Honda/Mclaren/STR discussion so let's not go there, please.

Regarding the +40 etc numbers ... if we'd add up all the supposed gains every time the manufacturers introduced new specs the engines would now probably have 1200hp+ :lol:
Last edited by RZS10 on Tue May 29, 2018 9:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

etusch
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Re: Honda Power Unit

Post by etusch » Tue May 29, 2018 9:11 pm

I would Love to see that numbers. But as muramasa warned us, you must know that these numbers came from journalist and not from Honda. Then you must not say Honda claimed 40 hp but only 20 on track

loner
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Re: Honda Power Unit

Post by loner » Tue May 29, 2018 9:15 pm

RZS10 wrote:
Tue May 29, 2018 8:49 pm
I think it's fair to believe them in this instance, mainly because that info came from Honda themselves, but i'm sick of the Honda/Mclaren/STR discussion so let's not go there, please.

Regarding the +40 etc numbers ... if we'd add up all the supposed gains every time the manufacturers introduced new specs the engines would now probably have 1200hp+ :lol:
i didn't claim any numbers iam saying Horner already know what the upgrade will offer and they already signed the contract as BBC hinted , the announcement will be in Canada with more than 80% possibility.
para bellum.

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Re: Honda Power Unit

Post by Wazari » Wed May 30, 2018 1:20 am

MMMMMMMM wrote:
Mon May 28, 2018 11:04 pm
Wazari-san, glad to hear you are fine !

According to what you know/feel/see do you think that the current 2018 engines are within the illusory 3% ?
Meaning we reached engine parity as it was defined by FIA: 3% gap between the most and the least powerful engine on a Circuit de Catalunya lap.
The short answer is no but very close. Not yet, anyways........
If you can make the opposition flinch, you have already won.

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Re: Honda Power Unit

Post by godlameroso » Wed May 30, 2018 1:58 am

They definitely will be before the end of the year. If the new upgrades center around the cylinder heads, it'll be interesting to see if the exhaust note changes.
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I2oni
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Re: Honda Power Unit

Post by I2oni » Wed May 30, 2018 2:49 pm

https://members.f1-life.net/report/69806/



Sent from my HUAWEI NXT-L29 using Tapatalk


turbof1
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Re: Honda Power Unit

Post by turbof1 » Wed May 30, 2018 2:58 pm

I2oni wrote:
Wed May 30, 2018 2:49 pm
https://members.f1-life.net/report/69806/



Sent from my HUAWEI NXT-L29 using Tapatalk
Running this through a translator, it basically states both TR get the update in Canada, unless something unexpected happens.
#AeroFrodo

dren
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Re: Honda Power Unit

Post by dren » Wed May 30, 2018 7:22 pm

Nice if true. It'll be good to see Hartley get it as well.
Honda!

loner
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Re: Honda Power Unit

Post by loner » Wed May 30, 2018 10:57 pm

Wazari wrote:
Mon May 28, 2018 9:47 pm
I do know there is a substantial ICE upgrade built and being tested. For personal reasons I really want to see it in the car. I know it was on the master calendar to be first installed for the Canadian GP. Whether that will happen or not is up to the directors and that decision probably won't be made until next Sunday or Monday. I do know Tanabe-san very well and he is very conservative when it comes to release of new technologies.
well last 2 words got my attention...
many more innovations in the pipeline which I highly doubt the other manufacturers will have in 2018 or ever for that matter, that Honda will try and fully incorporate by mid-season.
i assume Honda and Renault have almost same budget however i truly believe that Honda R&D is more advanced than Renault.
para bellum.

HPD
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Re: Honda Power Unit

Post by HPD » Fri Jun 01, 2018 1:02 pm

Honda technical director Toyoharu Tanabe told Motorsport.com there was nothing official to communicate regarding Canadian GP upgrades.

Pressed on whether Honda had validated reliability and would now search for performance, Tanabe said: "So far it [reliability] looks stable but I think we need to be careful not push too hard on the performance. We need balance.

"We have a lot of things to do and not many short-term solutions, most are long-term. [If] we develop something and then apply it to the engine, we need to have a reliability test.
"Any tiny thing to improve the performance, we need time."

Their pace looks particularly strong on circuits where the emphasis on the engine is at low-speed, and Honda is satisfied with the 2018 unit's driveability and how it is operating its energy recovery systems.

"The key point [in Monaco] is low-RPM, and on-off throttle application," said Tanabe. "That's one of the key parameters to set energy management.
"We have worked on the driveability very much to help the chassis behaviour through the corner and [the driver] accelerate earlier.
"Reliability, power and driveability are key points for the engine. Of course power is important for lap time but the driveability has a big effect as well.
"Our engineers always communicate with the team and driver to improve their confidence for throttle application."

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/coy- ... s-1043645/

HPD
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Re: Honda Power Unit

Post by HPD » Fri Jun 01, 2018 1:17 pm

First interview throughout the year (? :lol:
Q: The past few years have been relatively easy to understand the alignment of forces among the mechanics.
But this year everything is much more complicated ...


Toyoharu Tanabe : The regulations for engines have not changed for five years, so now the difference between the motors of different manufacturers is not so great. We reduced the backlog in the field of reliability, but still remain a little behind the leading manufacturers, we are still inferior to the leaders.

Question: So, you are inferior even to Renault?

Toyoharu Tanabe : Possibly.

Question: In which areas are you behind Mercedes and Ferrari?

Toyoharu Tanabe : It's not just one thing, but the power plant as a whole. It's about the efficiency of the combustion process, friction, lubricants, cooling system ... This is a combination of different technical aspects. If you are in something a little inferior here, and there, and somewhere else, in the end, you seriously lose your opponents.

Question: In which area have you made the greatest progress?
In working with the combustion chamber?
You had problems in this area ...


Toyoharu Tanabe : This is a very complex technology. Last year, we understood a lot, worked with many people and worked intensively in this area to get rid of shortcomings. This is one of the reasons why this year we no longer have problems with this.

Question: After the successful qualification of Pierre Gasley in the Grand prix of Bahrain, many assumed that in the race he would not be so fast.
However, on Sunday he also acted quite competitively.
In the qualification and in the race, the racer uses the energy of the power plant differently.
Now you do not have problems with this?


Toyoharu Tanabe : At least, I hope so! For example, in Baku we had problems using the power plant's power, and Pierre lost a lot of positions on the restart. In general, we do not have serious shortcomings, but we are still inferior in some areas. We continue to learn.

Question: Are the problems with the use of the power plant's energy related to the software or the components of the power plant?

Toyoharu Tanabe : And with that, and with the other. Honda specialists who work in the race must understand how to better use the components of the power plant, how to control the energy consumption, how to communicate with the engineers and pilots of the team. This is a very important part of our work on the track. Of course, we do not have enough experience - both Honda and Milton Keynes - and we do not fully understand what the components and systems of the powerplant should be, so that it is as efficient as possible.

Question: What changed after 2017, which allowed you to achieve such progress?
Or is it in your new partner?


Toyoharu Tanabe : We work very closely with Toro Rosso. But, in my opinion, with McLaren was the same. Is that now we have drawn conclusions based on the experience of past years.

Question: Do you have more freedom this year?

Toyoharu Tanabe : The fact is that we started cooperating very late with our current partner, so we had to make quick decisions in order to prepare for this season. But everyone in Toro Rosso readily accept our offers. However, I did not participate in this project in previous years, so I can not compare. Yes, we were given freedom, but we had very little time to prepare for everything. The team already had a car, and we have a power plant, and we had to unite all this.

Q: It is expected that you will bring a lot of new products to the Canadian Grand Prix.
In which areas will you refine the power unit?


Toyoharu Tanabe : Basically, modernization will touch the internal combustion engine.

Question: Do the components of the powerplant, which relate to different versions of it, fit together?

Toyoharu Tanabe : In general, they are suitable. But we really have to think about the right balance between the internal combustion engine, the turbine, the MGU-H and MGU-K motor generators. Upgrading parts of the power plant separately is not so easy.

Q: After the problems at the beginning of the season and the Brendan Hartley crash in Barcelona, ​​you may need to adjust the schedule for replacing the power plants.
Does this give you more freedom in developing new products?


Toyoharu Tanabe : During the season, we constantly deal with issues of reliability and efficiency, and when we feel that the next version of the power plant suits us, we will discuss with the team where and what is better to implement.

Question: Obviously, you can not comment on the negotiations with Red Bull Racing.
But technically, would it be better if Honda had more customers?


Toyoharu Tanabe : The more engines we produce, and the more partners we have, the more data we get. Of course, this helps in the work. Last year in the American IndyCar series, our engines stood on 13 cars, and all the riders who spoke to them collected data for us. Although we can not say that in IndyCar we get six times more information than in Formula 1 ...
https://www.f1news.ru/interview/tanabe/129335.shtml

godlameroso
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Re: Honda Power Unit

Post by godlameroso » Fri Jun 01, 2018 1:18 pm

I've noticed the drivability of the Honda engine seems very good, possibly why it's tire wear is so good.
The height of cultivation is really nothing special. It is merely simplicity; the ability to express the utmost with the minimum. Mr.Lee