Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

All that has to do with the power train, gearbox, clutch, fuels and lubricants, etc. Generally the mechanical side of Formula One.
Sieper
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by Sieper » Mon Oct 08, 2018 2:35 pm

Yes, but only on the Gasly car (lower power, not low power). According to Gasly they will have 2 tenths (or a bit more) more pace next qualy/race (can vary per circuit off course) but that is what he was missing compared to Hartley this race due to the more reserved mapping according to Gas himselve.

Thunder18
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by Thunder18 » Mon Oct 08, 2018 3:05 pm

That's the end of Hartley then if Gasly can run a couple of places in front with less overall power.

Sieper
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by Sieper » Mon Oct 08, 2018 3:40 pm

Indeed. I think this (race, overall weekend before that was fine) result was the nail in the coffin for the vey likable Hartley.

Eryngii
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by Eryngii » Mon Oct 08, 2018 11:52 pm

Inside of the plenum chamber (High-resolution photo could not be found...):
Image

Source:
https://sportiva.shueisha.co.jp/clm/mot ... _split_54/

maddim
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by maddim » Tue Oct 09, 2018 5:45 am

Sieper wrote:
Mon Oct 08, 2018 2:35 pm
Yes, but only on the Gasly car (lower power, not low power). According to Gasly they will have 2 tenths (or a bit more) more pace next qualy/race (can vary per circuit off course) but that is what he was missing compared to Hartley this race due to the more reserved mapping according to Gas himselve.
According to Autosport the performance level was not affected. I guess also the same as, it is very strange to have only one PU in different mode as the other.

Krischnen
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by Krischnen » Tue Oct 09, 2018 9:55 am

maddim wrote:
Tue Oct 09, 2018 5:45 am
Sieper wrote:
Mon Oct 08, 2018 2:35 pm
Yes, but only on the Gasly car (lower power, not low power). According to Gasly they will have 2 tenths (or a bit more) more pace next qualy/race (can vary per circuit off course) but that is what he was missing compared to Hartley this race due to the more reserved mapping according to Gas himselve.
According to Autosport the performance level was not affected. I guess also the same as, it is very strange to have only one PU in different mode as the other.
Well, Autosport is only quoting TR/Honda... so take that with a bit of salt.

I do remember Gasly talking on saturday about some issues they experienced during FP3 and therefor they couldn't run the engine settings they wanted to for qualifying. Hartley didn't have these issues, and probably did qualify with the preferred engine mapping.
Maybe that's what this is all about.

The FIA gave permission to change the mappings during Parc Ferme on grounds of 'reliability'. When they found out this engine mapping also produced more torque, they told Toro Rosso [on the grid] to revert back to the old mapping, as changes to the performance of the engine are not allowed during Parc Ferme.

dren
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by dren » Tue Oct 09, 2018 11:21 am

maddim wrote:
Tue Oct 09, 2018 5:45 am
Sieper wrote:
Mon Oct 08, 2018 2:35 pm
Yes, but only on the Gasly car (lower power, not low power). According to Gasly they will have 2 tenths (or a bit more) more pace next qualy/race (can vary per circuit off course) but that is what he was missing compared to Hartley this race due to the more reserved mapping according to Gas himselve.
According to Autosport the performance level was not affected. I guess also the same as, it is very strange to have only one PU in different mode as the other.
From what I've read, Gasly was having to short shift a bit which cost him a little time. The engine settings were ignition retard settings after shifting.
Honda!

gandharva
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Location: Munich

Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by gandharva » Tue Oct 09, 2018 1:03 pm

If we wanted to be in Q3 in Japan we just needed more power, and Honda has showed that it is possible.
Ouch...

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/sain ... s/3192202/

Alexf1
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by Alexf1 » Tue Oct 09, 2018 1:31 pm

Does anyone have an idea what Hondas new combustion process is?

maddim
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Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2018 7:34 am

Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by maddim » Tue Oct 09, 2018 6:07 pm

Krischnen wrote:
Tue Oct 09, 2018 9:55 am
maddim wrote:
Tue Oct 09, 2018 5:45 am
Sieper wrote:
Mon Oct 08, 2018 2:35 pm
Yes, but only on the Gasly car (lower power, not low power). According to Gasly they will have 2 tenths (or a bit more) more pace next qualy/race (can vary per circuit off course) but that is what he was missing compared to Hartley this race due to the more reserved mapping according to Gas himselve.
According to Autosport the performance level was not affected. I guess also the same as, it is very strange to have only one PU in different mode as the other.
Well, Autosport is only quoting TR/Honda... so take that with a bit of salt.

I do remember Gasly talking on saturday about some issues they experienced during FP3 and therefor they couldn't run the engine settings they wanted to for qualifying. Hartley didn't have these issues, and probably did qualify with the preferred engine mapping.
Maybe that's what this is all about.

The FIA gave permission to change the mappings during Parc Ferme on grounds of 'reliability'. When they found out this engine mapping also produced more torque, they told Toro Rosso [on the grid] to revert back to the old mapping, as changes to the performance of the engine are not allowed during Parc Ferme.
this all sounds very logical.

Bill
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Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2018 9:28 am

Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by Bill » Tue Oct 09, 2018 6:36 pm

All reliability updates improve performance it allows teams to push the engine more fia as usual are full of nonsense,the rules are not applied the same to every team

HPD
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by HPD » Tue Oct 09, 2018 6:37 pm

So, every time there is a very big modification in the combustion process the oscillations appear?

godlameroso
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by godlameroso » Tue Oct 09, 2018 9:19 pm

You won't know what resonant frequencies exist until you have all the driveline and the engine coupled together running on track. It's hard enough to predict the resonance in an isolated system, let alone an f1 car. Even aero loading the tires can affect vibrations transmitted through the drive shafts.
The height of cultivation is really nothing special. It is merely simplicity; the ability to express the utmost with the minimum. Mr.Lee

Mudflap
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by Mudflap » Tue Oct 09, 2018 9:50 pm

Well actually it's not that hard, numerical solutions for torsional vibration in reciprocating engines and drivelines have been around since 1920s and have since evolved to the extent that they can capture any relevant behaviour with near perfect accuracy.

Also tire loads are not really relevant since the torsional stiffness of the tire is very low compared to that of the driveline.
How much TQ does it make though?

godlameroso
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by godlameroso » Wed Oct 10, 2018 12:32 am

Mudflap wrote:
Tue Oct 09, 2018 9:50 pm
Well actually it's not that hard, numerical solutions for torsional vibration in reciprocating engines and drivelines have been around since 1920s and have since evolved to the extent that they can capture any relevant behaviour with near perfect accuracy.

Also tire loads are not really relevant since the torsional stiffness of the tire is very low compared to that of the driveline.
The hubs and wheel bearings take a fair bit of load and have their own resonant frequencies, coupled to the resonance of the tires and the suspension maybe was enough to create unwanted frequencies during upshifts. Obviously guessing, since I'm sure they have a transmission bolted to the engine in whatever dyno they're running. By process of elimination, the only thing left is the driveshafts, hubs and tires. It could also just as easily be corporate speak for the engine has issues and we're still working out the kinks.
The height of cultivation is really nothing special. It is merely simplicity; the ability to express the utmost with the minimum. Mr.Lee