Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

All that has to do with the power train, gearbox, clutch, fuels and lubricants, etc. Generally the mechanical side of Formula One.
McMika98
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Hkbruin2 wrote:
Sat Feb 16, 2019 10:28 am
I noticed that the two wastegate pipes on the Toro Rosso STR14 PU are placed differently than the Red Bull RB15, where the STR14’s goes above the suspension arm while the RB15 goes below. How much difference would that make, and why the discrepancy if the rear is all provided by Red Bull? I’m also curious about how different the cooling systems are between the two teams.
Believe TR is using 2018 suspension front and rear. The exhaust is clearly blowing upwards below the rear wing which would be beneficial reducing drag with the big new rear wing.

restless
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Tzk wrote:
Fri Feb 15, 2019 10:26 pm
I also think that 2nc place in wcc should be the goal, but if they announce this right now, it may end in the media bashing honda...

My guess is that rb tries to not raise expectations too much. Honda is still learning, so lets hope they learn fast ;)
Realistically 3rd place for the team is the goal.
They are not at MB/Ferrari level and won't be at least in 1st half
Renault are building up and now have a top driver
Ditto Alfa Romeo

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godlameroso
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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3rd place without trying too hard. If Honda does plan on using 5 engines, then reliability will be the question mark as they'll likely be pushing the engine hard to compete. They would be on their 3rd power unit and 1st big upgrade around France, or Austria, run that until the summer break, then take on 2 more power units after. Hopefully TR can help the upgrades along, or lead to a breakthrough somewhere.

Honda has been a year behind the others since joining, and tends to surpass the year old units 3/4ths of the way through the season. It took them until Suzuka for their 2016 power unit to surpass the 2015 Ferrari. It took spec 3 to overtake the 2018 Renault which was just a lightly massaged 2017 engine.

At the normal rate of progression Honda will start 2019 with something in the ballpark of the 2018 Mercedes power unit at the beginning of the season. However they have the chance to close that gap this year.
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etusch
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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restless wrote:
Sat Feb 16, 2019 11:12 am
Tzk wrote:
Fri Feb 15, 2019 10:26 pm
I also think that 2nc place in wcc should be the goal, but if they announce this right now, it may end in the media bashing honda...

My guess is that rb tries to not raise expectations too much. Honda is still learning, so lets hope they learn fast ;)
Realistically 3rd place for the team is the goal.
They are not at MB/Ferrari level and won't be at least in 1st half
Renault are building up and now have a top driver
Ditto Alfa Romeo
No, we still donn't know anything about packging order. We have to wait until end of the second test to speak a bit certain. it is just brain border esptablished by last 4 seasons to say "nobody can catch mercedes". In fact ferrari did this and there can be new achiever there. I hope it is Honda but there can be Renault too( and this is great for good races).
If we consider things according to last season, even lewis hamilton can not help renault not ricci, if we consider that they developed ( like you assume for just renault ) RBR + Honda can be level of fighting for 2nd place at wcc and in fact they were that level even at 2018 year. But they left away because of reliability. So they can aim better than 2018 and if Honda's plans work then why not fight for both title ?
Last edited by etusch on Sat Feb 16, 2019 10:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Godius
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Hkbruin2 wrote:
Sat Feb 16, 2019 10:28 am
I noticed that the two wastegate pipes on the Toro Rosso STR14 PU are placed differently than the Red Bull RB15, where the STR14’s goes above the suspension arm while the RB15 goes below. How much difference would that make, and why the discrepancy if the rear is all provided by Red Bull? I’m also curious about how different the cooling systems are between the two teams.
My guess is that the aerodynamicists at Milton Keynes want to shrink te bodywork around the exhaust area as much as possible by repositioning the wastegates. Last year the RW was lower so there was probably a positive tradeoff between having a bulky exhaust area and aiding airflow towards the RW. I think that the RB15 will have a much tighter bodywork in Melbourne but for testing purposes they have kept te bodywork relatively wide open during the shakedown and probably for Barcelona pre-season testing as well.

example from the RB15 thread:
gandharva wrote:
Wed Feb 13, 2019 3:58 pm
Why are so much people afraid of cooling issues? Look at the huge gap between exhaust and engine cover:
Image
That Honda (still) has plenty of space to breathe! :D

This is what the Renault engine got last year:
Image
So, I'd say wait for the start of the european season. Then Newey will tighten it up. ;)

mzso
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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restless wrote:
Sat Feb 16, 2019 11:12 am
Tzk wrote:
Fri Feb 15, 2019 10:26 pm
I also think that 2nc place in wcc should be the goal, but if they announce this right now, it may end in the media bashing honda...

My guess is that rb tries to not raise expectations too much. Honda is still learning, so lets hope they learn fast ;)
Realistically 3rd place for the team is the goal.
They are not at MB/Ferrari level and won't be at least in 1st half
Renault are building up and now have a top driver
Ditto Alfa Romeo
I think you should look at the RB results for the last five races. 3-2-1-2-3 for Verstappen, which includes the Renault PU snafu at Abu Dhabi and Verstappens foolish collision in Brazil. Even a tiny bit of relative performance improvement can make them a regular victory contender
At least some significant amount of power increase is expected from Honda, and Newey tends to have an edge at regulation changes.

holeindalip
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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mzso wrote:
Sat Feb 16, 2019 9:41 pm
restless wrote:
Sat Feb 16, 2019 11:12 am
Tzk wrote:
Fri Feb 15, 2019 10:26 pm
I also think that 2nc place in wcc should be the goal, but if they announce this right now, it may end in the media bashing honda...

My guess is that rb tries to not raise expectations too much. Honda is still learning, so lets hope they learn fast ;)
Realistically 3rd place for the team is the goal.
They are not at MB/Ferrari level and won't be at least in 1st half
Renault are building up and now have a top driver
Ditto Alfa Romeo
I think you should look at the RB results for the last five races. 3-2-1-2-3 for Verstappen, which includes the Renault PU snafu at Abu Dhabi and Verstappens foolish collision in Brazil. Even a tiny bit of relative performance improvement can make them a regular victory contender
At least some significant amount of power increase is expected from Honda, and Newey tends to have an edge at regulation changes.
The results look good but merc and Ferrari were in a championship battle and weren't bothering battling with verstappen and probably most likely saving components.....

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etusch
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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holeindalip wrote:
Sun Feb 17, 2019 7:43 pm
mzso wrote:
Sat Feb 16, 2019 9:41 pm

I think you should look at the RB results for the last five races. 3-2-1-2-3 for Verstappen, which includes the Renault PU snafu at Abu Dhabi and Verstappens foolish collision in Brazil. Even a tiny bit of relative performance improvement can make them a regular victory contender
At least some significant amount of power increase is expected from Honda, and Newey tends to have an edge at regulation changes.
The results look good but merc and Ferrari were in a championship battle and weren't bothering battling with verstappen and probably most likely saving components.....
Did you really say this ?

Tzk
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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It doesnt even make sense... why should they let verstappen through, just because they are in a championship battle. This is the moment where every point counts. Yes, they weren‘t battling him with everything they had, but they also werent just let him pass.

holeindalip
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Tzk wrote:
Sun Feb 17, 2019 8:49 pm
It doesnt even make sense... why should they let verstappen through, just because they are in a championship battle. This is the moment where every point counts. Yes, they weren‘t battling him with everything they had, but they also werent just let him pass.

I didn’t say they just stopped on track and let him drive by but they were smarter about it than verstappen was (Brazil), this is ot so you can pm me if you have anything else to say on the matter....

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ringo
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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mzso wrote:
Sat Feb 16, 2019 9:41 pm
restless wrote:
Sat Feb 16, 2019 11:12 am
Tzk wrote:
Fri Feb 15, 2019 10:26 pm
I also think that 2nc place in wcc should be the goal, but if they announce this right now, it may end in the media bashing honda...

My guess is that rb tries to not raise expectations too much. Honda is still learning, so lets hope they learn fast ;)
Realistically 3rd place for the team is the goal.
They are not at MB/Ferrari level and won't be at least in 1st half
Renault are building up and now have a top driver
Ditto Alfa Romeo
I think you should look at the RB results for the last five races. 3-2-1-2-3 for Verstappen, which includes the Renault PU snafu at Abu Dhabi and Verstappens foolish collision in Brazil. Even a tiny bit of relative performance improvement can make them a regular victory contender
At least some significant amount of power increase is expected from Honda, and Newey tends to have an edge at regulation changes.
2019 tyres will reset everything we know about redbulls form in the latter part of 2018.
For Sure!!

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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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autosport live feed:
Verstappen and Kvyat are out in the Honda-powered Red Bull and Toro Rosso respectively. Frankly, both cars sound like tractors.
Diesel power :-D

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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Image
Via AMuS
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gandharva
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Wow! That's some tight packaging going on here. Looks like the inner body airflow is optimized very much.

Snorked
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Horner on the testing coverage said it's beautifully integrated into the car and they're hopefully going to see exciting progress through the year.