Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

All that has to do with the power train, gearbox, clutch, fuels and lubricants, etc. Generally the mechanical side of Formula One.
Tzk
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by Tzk » Wed Feb 20, 2019 10:48 am

I wouldn't expect that RedBull is forcing Honda to build a tiny as possible engine... We've seen this go wrong before. I'd rather expect them to build a small engine, but with reliability and power in mind. So build as small as possible without sacrificing power, cooling or reliability too much. Both RedBull and Honda should (by now) be smart enough to get that done.

dren
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by dren » Wed Feb 20, 2019 1:36 pm

Tzk wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 10:48 am
I wouldn't expect that RedBull is forcing Honda to build a tiny as possible engine... We've seen this go wrong before. I'd rather expect them to build a small engine, but with reliability and power in mind. So build as small as possible without sacrificing power, cooling or reliability too much. Both RedBull and Honda should (by now) be smart enough to get that done.
Sounds like a trade off between the two parties. Lose a tenth in PU time here, gain two tenths in chassis time there.
Honda!

Tzk
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by Tzk » Wed Feb 20, 2019 1:41 pm

Yep. I believe they went for the best package performance in total. No point in building an extra small engine to enhance chassis performance and then becoming a sitting duck on the straights because power is missing.

dren
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by dren » Wed Feb 20, 2019 2:09 pm

Red Bull team boss Christian Horner already knows more: "We are fully on schedule. The car works as we predicted. And the Honda engine is a rocket. "Horner quotes his drivers:" Pierre Gasly has told us that the new Honda engine pervades much better than last year's. The power is available over a larger rev range. And Max, he just raves. He feels much more power. "

"In addition, the engine is incredibly soft and even when downshifting does not have these dropouts like the Renault. So the rear is much more stable when it turns into the corners and at the same time downshifts. "On Wednesday, Red Bull built the second Honda engine in the car. "For security reasons only, because Gasly flew backwards into the barrier on Tuesday. Honda did not want to risk anything. "
Honda!

maguetox
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by maguetox » Wed Feb 20, 2019 4:09 pm

dren wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 2:09 pm
Red Bull team boss Christian Horner already knows more: "We are fully on schedule. The car works as we predicted. And the Honda engine is a rocket. "Horner quotes his drivers:" Pierre Gasly has told us that the new Honda engine pervades much better than last year's. The power is available over a larger rev range. And Max, he just raves. He feels much more power. "

"In addition, the engine is incredibly soft and even when downshifting does not have these dropouts like the Renault. So the rear is much more stable when it turns into the corners and at the same time downshifts. "On Wednesday, Red Bull built the second Honda engine in the car. "For security reasons only, because Gasly flew backwards into the barrier on Tuesday. Honda did not want to risk anything. "
Good to hear that, but I´m little concern of the lack of running the Red Bull is having at the moment, hoping is not related to this new PU they just fit in.

muramasa
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by muramasa » Wed Feb 20, 2019 4:53 pm

DutchDopey wrote:
Tue Feb 19, 2019 6:37 pm
This is in stark contrast with what was earlier been said by RB; "We said to Honda just build te fastest PU and we will built a car around that.".
If you really build a car around engine, intake air pipe length would be 0 meter, inlet pipes would be straight towers soaring high, exhaust pipes would spread wide, turbo and compressor would be placed back to back, etc. This is a sport so of course it is about making as compact as possible and that's what all the makers are doing, hell even production cars is about packaging. Tanabe is merely talking about normal development procedure and how they collaborated and worked on it but this gets interpreted as "Honda going size zero" etc, even the commentator on f1.com tv was saying that while ago, really facepalm.


Krischnen wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 12:33 am
According to Marc Priestley, there are still issues with vibrations.
Has anyone read of heard something about this?
I somehow managed to lose track of the source but I read (shud be f1sokuho, but just cannot find it) that they had little oscillation issue in shakedown on filming day at Silverstone but it was minor or normal installation thing and already solved it.
However tbh Honda vibration is a case of one who knows little repeats the same thing, I mean of course they have vibration/oscillation issue as pursuit of lean burn is about this eternal battle with unstable/erratic combustion and how to regulate and suppress it, so as you squeeze more power you get more vibration or unstable combustion and torque delivery to tackle with and conquer. So as long as you put Honda and vibration in the same sentence you always get it right forever, it's same as predicting that earthquake will happen somewhere in Japan every day will make you correct forever. Typically they do not distinguish difference between vibration and oscillation, the two fundamentally and totally different things. The issue Honda encountered in early 2017 and spec 3 of 2018 was mainly oscillation issue.
Last edited by muramasa on Wed Feb 20, 2019 7:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

anthonyfa18
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by anthonyfa18 » Wed Feb 20, 2019 6:27 pm

Horner denies reports of vibration problems with Honda power unit
Image

https://www.racefans.net/2019/02/20/hor ... ower-unit/

carisi2k
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by carisi2k » Thu Feb 21, 2019 8:49 am

Marc priestly isn't a reliable source for any team but mclaren. The RB15 looks solid aside from Gasly's little snafu. The car looks good and sounds good and honda is getting quite a lot of data with 2 teams using their engine. Max looks really happy which as a ricciardo fan is pissing me off no end because the rb15 looks potent.

scheffers
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by scheffers » Fri Feb 22, 2019 9:41 am

Interrestinig quote form Gasly yesterday in Dutch interview:

`Looking at Toro Rosso it seems to work pretty well, and even on my side I can feel the increased performance`

This would imply that the Honda`s in the TR have already been opened up a bit this week, very curious what they can do this season. Really HOPE they get this vibrations (spec3 last year still) under control and compete!


nzjrs
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by nzjrs » Fri Feb 22, 2019 3:00 pm

scheffers wrote:
Fri Feb 22, 2019 9:41 am
Really HOPE they get this vibrations (spec3 last year still) under control and compete!
I think it's been established that the vibration rumor came from Marc Priestly was false. It was not substantiated by anyone, and Marc isn't really that knowledgeable nor connected (and I watch every one of his youtube videos as a fan)

scheffers
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by scheffers » Fri Feb 22, 2019 3:02 pm

nzjrs wrote:
Fri Feb 22, 2019 3:00 pm
scheffers wrote:
Fri Feb 22, 2019 9:41 am
Really HOPE they get this vibrations (spec3 last year still) under control and compete!
I think it's been established that the vibration rumor came from Marc Priestly was false. It was not substantiated by anyone, and Marc isn't really that knowledgeable nor connected (and I watch every one of his youtube videos as a fan)
Yep, that`s why I said spec3 2018.... engine is still same concept. Wasn`t talking about Priestly`s remarks.

Wouter
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by Wouter » Fri Feb 22, 2019 3:11 pm

scheffers wrote:
Fri Feb 22, 2019 9:41 am
Really HOPE they get this vibrations (spec3 last year still) under control and compete!
The vibrations in the last engine were rectified last year. On what are you basing that this improved 2019 engine would again show vibrations?
The only one who says that is Marc Priestly, a big McLaren fan.

scheffers
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by scheffers » Fri Feb 22, 2019 3:21 pm

Wouter wrote:
Fri Feb 22, 2019 3:11 pm
scheffers wrote:
Fri Feb 22, 2019 9:41 am
Really HOPE they get this vibrations (spec3 last year still) under control and compete!
The vibrations in the last engine were rectified last year. On what are you basing that this improved 2019 engine would again show vibrations?
The only one who says that is Marc Priestly, a big McLaren fan.
I am not stating this the new engine HAS vibration.
The vibration in the last engine were (for as far as some speculations go) a result of the extra 45hp horsepower. Since Honda had been dealing with vibrations/oscilations before they were (as they say themselves) able to find a software-solution.
All I`m saying that I hope they get/have this problems (which thus occur with extra HP, that they obviously found too) under control for 2019. And yes, this is relevant since the whole engine concept is still 2017 and they have been struggling getting these problems under control for two years now.

HPD
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by HPD » Fri Feb 22, 2019 5:16 pm

Yamamoto: "The atmosphere and structure in Sakura and Milton Keynes has changed dramatically, Asaki's reign began last year and could mark a clear direction for the development of the power unit." Of course, all that was based on the work from the previous years, but Asaki continued those efforts and that led to clear results and he created a base for this season "

"We changed the floor layout, before Sakura was divided into reception, assembly room, machines on the first floor and test bench in another building, the designers were on the fourth floor," he said.

"We decided to concentrate everything on the first floor, so that the design and assembly is done in a close manner and people can move between the two processes, before, the people were more dispersed, but now they have come together. This is how Honda should be"
https://soymotor.com/noticias/honda-esp ... rde-960496

ReoPTy
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by ReoPTy » Sat Feb 23, 2019 11:08 am

remember that when you doesn't push on engine side and change it every night while winter testing everything is possible, post winter analyse marsh 2018

"Starting off on the right foot
Toro Rosso's fire-up was completed a day ahead of schedule. Their filming day ran without problems. Then in testing, Brendon Hartley gave Toro Rosso the honour of being the first team out of the pits, going on to complete an impressive 93 laps on the opening day. The next three days were smooth and they ended the first test - to some surprise - at the top of the mileage charts. It was a staggering turnaround from where both reliability-stricken parties had been 12 months ago.

Come the end of the second week, Toro Rosso had a total of 822 laps on the board. Last year, Honda managed just 425 with McLaren. Interestingly, if Honda had three teams and completed similar mileage, they would have amassed 2466 laps, which is more than Ferrari and Renault and just shy of what Mercedes achieved"

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/arti ... ewekK.html

far of the results honda had along 2018 season, so i would stay very cautious for 2019