Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

All that has to do with the power train, gearbox, clutch, fuels and lubricants, etc. Generally the mechanical side of Formula One.
Hino
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by Hino » Fri Apr 12, 2019 8:04 pm

Marko mentions an engine update for Monaco.
Our updates for both the chassis and the engine are probably only in Monaco. Only then again during the race weekend at Spa in Belgium ” , says the advisor at Blick in Switzerland. "Until then, we must therefore ensure that we are as close to the top as possible.
https://www.gpblog.com/nl/nieuws/34738/ ... ates-.html

Snorked
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by Snorked » Sat Apr 13, 2019 2:56 pm

Posted by Muramasa over on autosport:
Regarding post Bahrain test, Honda tested hardware update(s) and Tanabe says that they conducted on-track verification for what they plan to introduce in future and it was very productive, also Tanabe says they trialed various solutions to address the engine braking stability issue (that Gasly talked about) and driveability issue encountered during Bahrain GP weekend (Tanabe was saying that they found after qualifying that something in the mapping could be worked out to help/alleviate chassis stability issue and improve overall driveability further) and brought the outcome to China after conducting further work on dyno.


https://sportiva.shu..._gp/index_2.php

() parts are what I read in other sources like f1sokuho last week

ivanlesk
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by ivanlesk » Sun Apr 14, 2019 6:38 am

Soo, according to this (currently) they don't have best driveability.

That could explain part of RB problems in Aus and Bah.

ispano6
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by ispano6 » Sun Apr 14, 2019 3:52 pm

ivanlesk wrote:
Sun Apr 14, 2019 6:38 am
Soo, according to this (currently) they don't have best driveability.

That could explain part of RB problems in Aus and Bah.
Max says its already better than last year so it must mean the Renault has worser drivability.
Problems in Bahrain were explained by set up issues.

Honda reliability has been a key asset for these early races. Beating a Ferrari to the checkered flag each race so far. Just having two teams providing telemetry and data is a huge benefit.

etusch
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by etusch » Sun Apr 14, 2019 4:36 pm

ivanlesk wrote:
Sun Apr 14, 2019 6:38 am
Soo, according to this (currently) they don't have best driveability.

That could explain part of RB problems in Aus and Bah.
Best driveability can not be said unless mercedes and ferrari engines experienced. They must mean better than renault

ivanlesk
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by ivanlesk » Sun Apr 14, 2019 8:06 pm

Well should've known better. Post wasn't aimed at your ongoing nonsense feud with Honda-Renault. Calm down.

Nor comparing PUs. Honda was (even during McLaren era) named as engine with great driveability (if not best). Power and reliability are another topic.

ATM and only ATM they maybe struggling with this (based on Tanabe comments) and can be a detail more in trying to understand RBs problems (at least for me).

1158
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by 1158 » Mon Apr 15, 2019 12:23 am

One thing I noticed with Gasly is he says hes having trouble putting the power down. An issue he did not mention last year.

We know the PU has not changed a lot. I doubt Honda made enough gains with the latest spec to make it that much harder for Gasly to drive it. The only thing that has changed significantly since last year is the car he's in. I'm not saying Honda doesnt have work to do, they do. However, I'd wager the traction issues are down to the chassis based on Gasly's feedback and this may be where the updates are focused. Im sure the power delivery of the Honda PU is different from the Renault and there is also the weight distribution issue brought up. I think Max is just better at driving around the issue.

Hino
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by Hino » Mon Apr 15, 2019 2:16 am

1158 wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 12:23 am
One thing I noticed with Gasly is he says hes having trouble putting the power down. An issue he did not mention last year.

We know the PU has not changed a lot. I doubt Honda made enough gains with the latest spec to make it that much harder for Gasly to drive it. The only thing that has changed significantly since last year is the car he's in. I'm not saying Honda doesnt have work to do, they do. However, I'd wager the traction issues are down to the chassis based on Gasly's feedback and this may be where the updates are focused. Im sure the power delivery of the Honda PU is different from the Renault and there is also the weight distribution issue brought up. I think Max is just better at driving around the issue.
Just a theory, but with the Renault PU layout, with it being rear end heavier with the turbo/MGU-H mounted at the back of the long block could contribute to rear end grip. With the McLaren having good rear end grip where it counts with tracks like Aus/Bahrain seem to make some sense. Seeing how poor they performed at China where front end grip matters more just adds to my theory?

Singabule
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by Singabule » Mon Apr 15, 2019 2:56 am

Hino wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 2:16 am
1158 wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 12:23 am
One thing I noticed with Gasly is he says hes having trouble putting the power down. An issue he did not mention last year.

We know the PU has not changed a lot. I doubt Honda made enough gains with the latest spec to make it that much harder for Gasly to drive it. The only thing that has changed significantly since last year is the car he's in. I'm not saying Honda doesnt have work to do, they do. However, I'd wager the traction issues are down to the chassis based on Gasly's feedback and this may be where the updates are focused. Im sure the power delivery of the Honda PU is different from the Renault and there is also the weight distribution issue brought up. I think Max is just better at driving around the issue.
Just a theory, but with the Renault PU layout, with it being rear end heavier with the turbo/MGU-H mounted at the back of the long block could contribute to rear end grip. With the McLaren having good rear end grip where it counts with tracks like Aus/Bahrain seem to make some sense. Seeing how poor they performed at China where front end grip matters more just adds to my theory?
The weight distribution is stated in regulations and also Renault engine with it's K position give unbalanced weight between left and right side, hence I dont buy the honda layout creating issue, should much better compared to Renault unit one.

NL_Fer
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by NL_Fer » Mon Apr 15, 2019 6:50 am

This though has crossed my mind also. The Ferrari’s and their pu partners seem to have the same gain on Mercedes teams. More slow corner traction, faster acceleration. Ferrari also has the turbocharger on he backside.

GhostF1
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by GhostF1 » Mon Apr 15, 2019 8:23 am

NL_Fer wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 6:50 am
This though has crossed my mind also. The Ferrari’s and their pu partners seem to have the same gain on Mercedes teams. More slow corner traction, faster acceleration. Ferrari also has the turbocharger on he backside.
I think that is more down to the PU itself. Looking at telemetry, Hamilton has gotten on throttle sooner on multiple occasions and yet the Ferrari accelerates like no other. Toto has commented on this, Ferrari acceleration has always been impressive but he mentioned that this year they seem to be able to accelerate right up until the braking point on the long straights where they (Merc) can not.

Toro Rosso didn't have these rear end power down issues last year after swapping from Renault, although I agree that the issue is probably centred around rear suspension design. They have a lot more room to play at the back this year with the Honda due to the layout and in general it looks tighter packed and because of that, an entirely new gearbox. It's possible they tried something with the rear suspension (much like McLaren did with the MCL33 last year going to Renault, with that weird cranked single upper arm which they had initial issues with) and they are having teething issues now.
We'll have some answers come Barcelona when the new parts arrive they have been talking about.

Singabule
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by Singabule » Mon Apr 15, 2019 9:09 am

Gasly also mention that the downshift and engine braking is very rough one, and makes rear unstable, but max like it. Interesting while Gasly also have the same PU engineer as last year, so I think something going very wrong on the suspension. TR use RB 14 as the base of current suspension, hence arguably more stable on the back. This is also consistant with telemetry data that RB cant floor throttle as Mercs and Ferarri did even with high DF RW. Could be setting issue though.

Hino
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by Hino » Mon Apr 15, 2019 9:54 am

Rumor that Honda will introduce a 20hp update in Baku.
Whereas Helmut Marko's statements about the lead over Renault appear to be less exaggerated, the Red Bull consultant comes up with even more good news: in Baku the new engine will be waiting for them.
https://www.gpblog.com/nl/nieuws/35006/ ... baku-.html

Wouter
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by Wouter » Mon Apr 15, 2019 10:13 am

Hino wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 9:54 am
Rumor that Honda will introduce a 20hp update in Baku.
Whereas Helmut Marko's statements about the lead over Renault appear to be less exaggerated, the Red Bull consultant comes up with even more good news: in Baku the new engine will be waiting for them.
https://www.gpblog.com/nl/nieuws/35006/ ... baku-.html
GPBlog draws the wrong conclusions again as usual! Bad, unreliable site.
The news is from De Telegraaf:

"Helmut Marko rubs his hands: Twenty HP extra from Honda in Baku".
Red Bull team boss Helmut Marko already confirmed in Shanghai that he had received good news from Honda.
Reportedly, the cars from both Red Bull drivers will then get around 20 horsepower, which on average should amount to a profit of two tenths of a second per lap. "

Nowhere is it said that they get a different/new engine. It could very well be that Mobil comes with the long-awaited new fuel, which would deliver 20HP.

gandharva
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by gandharva » Mon Apr 15, 2019 10:25 am

20 bhp from fuel alone is very unlikely these days. But improved energy deployment combined with ignition tuning and new fuel could give some improvements without having to change the hardware. Engine also seems very reliable until now, so Honda could simply allow to use more agressive settings. I don't expect them to intruduce a new engine before Barcelona/Monaco. With the rumoured packaging changes Monaco is much more likely as both Honda and RBR will need to make changes for this.