Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

All that has to do with the power train, gearbox, clutch, fuels and lubricants, etc. Generally the mechanical side of Formula One.
Hino
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by Hino » Wed Apr 24, 2019 6:39 am

Officially confirmed Spec 2 for Baku.
This weekend, we will introduce the Spec 2 version of our internal combustion engine (ICE) across all four cars right from the start of the weekend. One of the reasons for bringing it to this race is that we found that Kvyat’s PU problem in China was down to a quality control issue. The main benefits of Spec 2 are improved durability and life and better reliability. It also offers a slight improvement in performance.
https://en.hondaracingf1.com/races/2019 ... ?tab=setup

Jaisonas
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by Jaisonas » Wed Apr 24, 2019 7:31 am

So if they're bringing spec2 this early, are they going with 4 specs? Or is this groundwork for a really powerfull spec3?

Craigy
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by Craigy » Wed Apr 24, 2019 1:28 pm

Jaisonas wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 7:31 am
So if they're bringing spec2 this early, are they going with 4 specs? Or is this groundwork for a really powerfull spec3?
A few things about this:

1. This gets track mileage and ultimately speeds up development. This is the RBR way: short term pain, long term gain.
2. By introducing it for all four Honda cars, they set up a precedent to do the same in each race where they go over the allocations. This means that the furthest back any individual Honda goes is not necessarily last place: they will range from 20th-17th places. Of course, if they were doing one car at a time, every change could mean last place. I would expect them to replace all the gearboxes as well, for this reason (once penalties kick in): get everything out of the way.
3. I think this means at least 4 specs. We will know later in the season what the actual cost is, in terms of penalties.

Alexf1
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by Alexf1 » Wed Apr 24, 2019 1:39 pm

There are still a lot of friday practices where the 1.0 spec engine can be used to limit mileage on spec 2.0 so it can be used more than 7 weekends (at least 9 weekends should be possible if its mainly used on sat and sun)

saviour stivala
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by saviour stivala » Wed Apr 24, 2019 5:31 pm

Make no mistake, Honda’s introducing a specification 2 engine upgrade across all four cars at the 4th race weekend is a forced 3-4 race weekends short introduction due to reliability concern.

ME4ME
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by ME4ME » Wed Apr 24, 2019 6:36 pm

To be fair everyone bar the Mercedes powered teams have cause for concern regarding reliability.

Also this should really come as no surprise. Red Bull always said they wanted to take an aggressive approach to development.

Personally I'm excited to see what Honda and ExxonMobil can come up with this season.

Zynerji
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by Zynerji » Wed Apr 24, 2019 7:14 pm

If Honda can win this year, penalties don't matter.

Wins first, title push second.

etusch
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by etusch » Wed Apr 24, 2019 8:10 pm

ME4ME wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 6:36 pm
To be fair everyone bar the Mercedes powered teams have cause for concern regarding reliability.

Also this should really come as no surprise. Red Bull always said they wanted to take an aggressive approach to development.

Personally I'm excited to see what Honda and ExxonMobil can come up with this season.
For sure.
Before the season start they( Redbull) were saying 5 pu for whole season and now people say that by this engine change it is certain for them to use 4 pu.
It looks like Honda's season start make them feel that Honda can finish season with 3 pu. I still expect 5 for whole season.
Hope both Redbull and Honda can develop enough to fight Victories second part of season.

Tzk
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by Tzk » Wed Apr 24, 2019 8:51 pm

As expected. I like how both Honda and RedBull don‘t inflate this into a huge gossip story. Still looks like a healthy relationship.

Now, bring it on honda. I wanna see redbull win with honda power :D

ispano6
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by ispano6 » Thu Apr 25, 2019 12:33 am

Craigy wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 1:28 pm
Jaisonas wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 7:31 am
So if they're bringing spec2 this early, are they going with 4 specs? Or is this groundwork for a really powerfull spec3?
A few things about this:

1. This gets track mileage and ultimately speeds up development. This is the RBR way: short term pain, long term gain.
2. By introducing it for all four Honda cars, they set up a precedent to do the same in each race where they go over the allocations. This means that the furthest back any individual Honda goes is not necessarily last place: they will range from 20th-17th places. Of course, if they were doing one car at a time, every change could mean last place. I would expect them to replace all the gearboxes as well, for this reason (once penalties kick in): get everything out of the way.
3. I think this means at least 4 specs. We will know later in the season what the actual cost is, in terms of penalties.
You don't start last simply by going over allocation of one PU element. I would expect some components to be usable across all spec ICEs. In normal development you dont change all PU components at once unless they aren't backward compatible, or unless you're building back up a car. What is surprising to me with these modular power units is that you can change the ICE and still use the same turbo charger.

carisi2k
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by carisi2k » Thu Apr 25, 2019 5:02 am

Jaisonas wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 7:31 am
So if they're bringing spec2 this early, are they going with 4 specs? Or is this groundwork for a really powerfull spec3?
The old engines for red bull can be used again in free practice at reduced power and so it doesn't necessarily mean extra units for Red Bull at all. I do suspect however that Red Bull might be willing to take a penalty at Monza for a fourth engine but don't expect any more penalties for Red Bull then for a fourth unit as Honda seems reasonably reliable.

With Renault again proving to be extremely fragile look for Red Bull to take this fourth Honda PU penalty at a grand prix when the Renault teams are also taking a penalty. Just to offset how far back Max would have to start.

HPD
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by HPD » Thu Apr 25, 2019 12:17 pm

Marko: "The 20 hp more is not right, it's less, but we can put more strain on the engine without any reliability issues."
https://www.autobild.de/artikel/formel- ... 14621.html

saviour stivala
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by saviour stivala » Fri Apr 26, 2019 9:41 am

Out of 4 engines in use for 3 race weekends so far, 2 ICE, 2 TC, 2 H and 2K has been replaced.
Their hopes seems to be centered on being able to race this new upgrade past at least 4 race weekends.

bosyber
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by bosyber » Fri Apr 26, 2019 9:55 am

HPD wrote:
Thu Apr 25, 2019 12:17 pm
Marko: "The 20 hp more is not right, it's less, but we can put more strain on the engine without any reliability issues."
https://www.autobild.de/artikel/formel- ... 14621.html
Well, happy to hear them be realistic then. Still good news, as more strain on the engine w/o worries will effectively translate to more usable power more of the time. Since Mercedes apparently only use their most powerful mode for about two laps a weekend, and Ferrari too only in Q3 and (depending on the race?) in outlaps after a pitstop, being able to use the top mode more often brings advantages on Sunday, and may help them bring the fight to those teams better.

saviour stivala
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by saviour stivala » Fri Apr 26, 2019 11:20 am

Honda power unit so far in Baku. Both Toro Rosses took just a new ICE. while both Red Bulls took new ICE, TC, H and K as well.