Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

All that has to do with the power train, gearbox, clutch, fuels and lubricants, etc. Generally the mechanical side of Formula One.
hurril
hurril
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Is the compressor twin-exit? I can see one [exit] leading to the left intercooler. What do we think here?

saviour stivala
saviour stivala
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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“The slip work I suggested” From memory of the Honda paper read, but all the same, I went back and read it all over again, that was exactly what I suspected (That it was your suggestion) and not what Honda was doing (nothing to do with the Honda paper). If you believe that a formula one clutch will last a race with that sort of in-designed slip I have no problem with that, all I have is real doubt.

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Godius
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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AMuS reports that Mario Illien is still involved with the Honda power unit development, he stated that the next significant kW update will have to wait around the British GP approximately at least.

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etusch
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Godius wrote:
Sat May 11, 2019 11:00 am
AMuS reports that Mario Illien is still involved with the Honda power unit development, he stated that the next significant kW update will have to wait around the British GP approximately at least.
Viele Gäste im Red Bull-Motorhome. DTM-Chef Gerhard Berger ist da, auch der Schweizer Motorenzauberer Mario Illien. Er hilft seit geraumer Zeit Honda ein bisschen auf die Sprünge. Illien verspricht, dass es spätestens ab Silverstone wieder mehr Power von Honda gibt.

google translated.
Many guests at the Red Bull Motorhome. DTM boss Gerhard Berger is there, as well as the Swiss engine wizard Mario Illien. He's been helping Honda a bit for quite some time now. Illien promises that there will be more power from Honda at the latest from Silverstone
.

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Wouter
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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etusch wrote:
Sat May 11, 2019 12:15 pm
Godius wrote:
Sat May 11, 2019 11:00 am
he stated that the next significant kW update will have to wait around the British GP approximately at least.

Illien verspricht, dass es spätestens ab Silverstone wieder mehr Power von Honda gibt.

google translated.
Illien promises that there will be more power from Honda at the latest from Silverstone
.
That is correct Etusch. Spätestens means at the latest, also probably in Canada or France.

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ME4ME
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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If you'd ask me it's pretty dumb of Mario Illien as a consultant to go behind Hondas back and make promises in the media.

saviour stivala
saviour stivala
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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One believes AMus at his own risk.

Gibbs
Gibbs
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Re: Honda Power Unit

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I remember this comment by Wazari in 2017 regarding Illien's involvement with the Honda PU. Spec 4 was supposed to be deployed in the McLaren in Japan (?) but kept being pushed back. As a residual of McLaren deciding to divorce Honda, Spec 4 never made it into a McLaren, and (if logic follows) instead became the foundation of their 2018 PU. Before Spec 4 there was Spec 3.6, 3.5, 3.4. Spec 4 was labelled Spec 4 around here because it was the first iteration to be designed solely by Honda. If this iteration of the PU enjoyed small success, and was not in any way Illien designed, I find it hard to believe that Illien is having a direct influence on the PU now.
Wazari wrote:
Tue Aug 29, 2017 10:51 pm
The new "Spec 4" in the pipeline is NOT an Illien designed PU. He had nothing to do with the upcoming PU. This is a "team wazari" designed ICE, PU. 8) Rumor has it that Illien has seen and blessed this configuration PU but I would be quite surprised if this is true. Sometimes I just want to wrangle these journalist's necks.

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aleks_ader
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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hurril wrote:
Sat May 11, 2019 10:35 am
Is the compressor twin-exit? I can see one [exit] leading to the left intercooler. What do we think here?
Yeah i m looking for same here. It must be singlescroll compressor exit with split exits to L&R side.

Let me explain: Here i draw crude drawing:

Image

There is no space for twinscroll compressor exit.
On picture above {1} i draw yellow hatched area there is blockage for 2nd exit from compressor. There is no space, because the oil tank is in the way. At least i cannot see free space there. To made low exit from compressor possible.

Honda using singlescroll turbine since inception. Heck even from 2015 where they had somesort unicorn compressor in the V-ee of the ICE.
Image

I speculate they are spliting the single exit into two L&R pipes look i draw pipes under {2}. They could use free area near and under oil tank {3}. Route the pipe between monocok and battery terminals like on picture below {4}. Similarly splitting pipes sys like they used from 2017 on top towards to the plenum {5}.
ImageImage

Theoretically they could use RA617H oil tank shape. That could potentialy made twin scroll possible look on that {6} cutout into oil tank below. But i think Honda had 4 yrs experience with single scroll compressor and its performance is probably well understanded. And maybe current solution is even lighter per unit volume ant its CoFG.

Image
"And if you no longer go for a gap that exists, you're no longer a racing driver..." Ayrton Senna

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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No need to do all those fancy drawings.
It is a single exit compressor similar to Mercedes. And from there it splits to go to the two intercoolers on either side of the car. Both return pipes to the split plenums similar to mercedes.
Not driving a Mercedes? Work harder!

roon
roon
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Oh, no. Unequal length runs to the intercoolers? This hurts my perfectionist side. Go watercooled, Newey-Honda. The teams that win races are doing it.

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godlameroso
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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roon wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 1:16 am
Oh, no. Unequal length runs to the intercoolers? This hurts my perfectionist side. Go watercooled, Newey-Honda. The teams that win races are doing it.
Silverstone upgrade I suppose.
The height of cultivation is really nothing special. It is merely simplicity; the ability to express the utmost with the minimum. Mr.Lee

roon
roon
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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godlameroso wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 3:08 am
roon wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 1:16 am
Oh, no. Unequal length runs to the intercoolers? This hurts my perfectionist side. Go watercooled, Newey-Honda. The teams that win races are doing it.
Silverstone upgrade I suppose.
Would be new to RB and Honda, and likely require monocoque changes.

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dren
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Yes, it splits like you have shown. There was a good picture of the compressor outlet piping on the STR a while back. Mclaren ran a single sided intercooler, so Honda had to change the piping for STR, which prefers them split. It looks like RBR does the same.
Honda!

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aleks_ader
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 12:35 am
No need to do all those fancy drawings.
Fancy. No. :lol:
"And if you no longer go for a gap that exists, you're no longer a racing driver..." Ayrton Senna