Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

All that has to do with the power train, gearbox, clutch, fuels and lubricants, etc. Generally the mechanical side of Formula One.
lio007
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Snorked
Snorked
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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That's the 2017 engine :(

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langedweil
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Capharol wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 11:31 pm
Wouter wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 9:43 pm
nzjrs wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 8:51 pm

.
Holy --- I thought you had left for good.
I thought that too. :wtf: :cry: :)
to bad he isn't
A forum without a decent troll is weird guys ... embrace him !

Btw, I'm overly bored .. no real news, no pics, no smart talk, no nothing.
3wks to go.
Must admit though RB/Marko is awkwardly quiet these days which is in fact a good thing I reckon ...
Sunshine is just a choice ...

GhostF1
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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langedweil wrote:
Thu Jan 23, 2020 4:38 am
Capharol wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 11:31 pm
Wouter wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 9:43 pm


I thought that too. :wtf: :cry: :)
to bad he isn't
A forum without a decent troll is weird guys ... embrace him !

Btw, I'm overly bored .. no real news, no pics, no smart talk, no nothing.
3wks to go.
Must admit though RB/Marko is awkwardly quiet these days which is in fact a good thing I reckon ...
I was going to say the same thing until Marko came out with "The improvement Honda have made with the 2020 engine means we have no more excuses" tease that he said last night..

Really sucks we don't get to see the 619 like all the others. They've come a long way!

Image

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godlameroso
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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The RA619 is much more compact than the 18, once they solved the harmonics issue with the MGU-H and the combustion, the block itself was much improved. It no longer needed to be as bulky.

The RA620 is a further development of the 19, all the lessons learned from the 19, all the things Honda wanted to do but were pressed for time were transferred to the 20.

As per usual Honda will have more than 1 power unit spec available for testing. Testing offers the rare chance to conduct back to back tests over different specs.

I hear that the turbo has been the big focus over the winter, that their combustion process along with the turbine know how from the aero division has helped them with a very efficient MGU-H compared to previous seasons. They should be able to harvest a fair bit more energy through the turbo while also improving on the overall power characteristics. The power gain itself is modest, but the energy recovery and reliability are now at a "satisfactory" level.

The way things are developing at both factories is very encouraging, in a week or so, I have a feeling that the car will be developed to a level where testing will be anxiously anticipated.

A very compact engine with a very compact transmission and very cleverly designed cooling, a clear step forward over last year, just that alone is worth a tenth or two.
The height of cultivation is really nothing special. It is merely simplicity; the ability to express the utmost with the minimum. Mr.Lee

Alexf1
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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godlameroso wrote:
Thu Jan 23, 2020 7:43 pm
The RA619 is much more compact than the 18, once they solved the harmonics issue with the MGU-H and the combustion, the block itself was much improved. It no longer needed to be as bulky.

The RA620 is a further development of the 19, all the lessons learned from the 19, all the things Honda wanted to do but were pressed for time were transferred to the 20.

As per usual Honda will have more than 1 power unit spec available for testing. Testing offers the rare chance to conduct back to back tests over different specs.

I hear that the turbo has been the big focus over the winter, that their combustion process along with the turbine know how from the aero division has helped them with a very efficient MGU-H compared to previous seasons. They should be able to harvest a fair bit more energy through the turbo while also improving on the overall power characteristics. The power gain itself is modest, but the energy recovery and reliability are now at a "satisfactory" level.

The way things are developing at both factories is very encouraging, in a week or so, I have a feeling that the car will be developed to a level where testing will be anxiously anticipated.

A very compact engine with a very compact transmission and very cleverly designed cooling, a clear step forward over last year, just that alone is worth a tenth or two.
Thank you very much for the update. Consistent to what Wazari said about the turbo upgrade and changed transmission for spec5. So I guess the 4 weeks of complete chassis + engine tests on the hired rig that Marko talked about are almost completed. Can you indicate a little bit where you get your info from?

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langedweil
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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GhostF1 wrote:
Thu Jan 23, 2020 6:05 am
I was going to say the same thing until Marko came out with "The improvement Honda have made with the 2020 engine means we have no more excuses" tease that he said last night..
Well, he hasn't, has he ?
If the PU really is there or thereabouts on par, there is no excuse ... at least it's not the regular over-the-top bragging. Just stfu, and let Max (or Alex) and the RB16 speak on track ..

On a completely other note, and as the forum is scattered all over the place at the moment: anyone any experience with going to COTA during the race weekend ?
Sunshine is just a choice ...

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Wouter
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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godlameroso wrote:
Thu Jan 23, 2020 7:43 pm
..............
I hear that the turbo has been the big focus over the winter, that their combustion process along with the turbine know how from the aero division has helped them with a very efficient MGU-H compared to previous seasons. They should be able to harvest a fair bit more energy through the turbo while also improving on the overall power characteristics. The power gain itself is modest, but the energy recovery and reliability are now at a "satisfactory" level.
................
Thank you for your information @Godlameroso. Interesting.
When I read this, it seems to me the situation of the spec 5 engine, as it was in October 2019.
Is that correct or do you describe the current situation of the further developed spec 5?
I ask that because you are talking about a "modest powergain" and according to my information
the 2020 spec 5 has a big upgrade.

I would also like to know (just like @ Alexf1) how you got this information, because it involves considerable details,
really inside information.

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bigblue
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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More for fun / interest than anything else (don't shoot the messenger, take aim at Remi Taffin of Renault !) :
"We see a close battle with Mercedes and Ferrari in terms of engine performance," he told Auto Motor und Sport. [...] But we are no longer talking about differences of 50 kilowatts. Between Ferrari, Mercedes and us it's a matter of 5 to 10 kilowatts. And maybe Honda is 15 or 20 kilowatts behind
Not sure exactly when this statement was actually made (if indeed it is an accurate quote), but the grandprix.com article is dated yesterday.

https://www.grandprix.com/news/renault- ... affin.html

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etusch
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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bigblue wrote:
Fri Jan 24, 2020 6:24 pm
More for fun / interest than anything else (don't shoot the messenger, take aim at Remi Taffin of Renault !) :
"We see a close battle with Mercedes and Ferrari in terms of engine performance," he told Auto Motor und Sport. [...] But we are no longer talking about differences of 50 kilowatts. Between Ferrari, Mercedes and us it's a matter of 5 to 10 kilowatts. And maybe Honda is 15 or 20 kilowatts behind
Not sure exactly when this statement was actually made (if indeed it is an accurate quote), but the grandprix.com article is dated yesterday.

https://www.grandprix.com/news/renault- ... affin.html
If taffin makes true calculations, ferrari's engine advantage was what?
Last edited by etusch on Fri Jan 24, 2020 8:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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godlameroso
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Wouter wrote:
Fri Jan 24, 2020 11:25 am
godlameroso wrote:
Thu Jan 23, 2020 7:43 pm
..............
I hear that the turbo has been the big focus over the winter, that their combustion process along with the turbine know how from the aero division has helped them with a very efficient MGU-H compared to previous seasons. They should be able to harvest a fair bit more energy through the turbo while also improving on the overall power characteristics. The power gain itself is modest, but the energy recovery and reliability are now at a "satisfactory" level.
................
Thank you for your information @Godlameroso. Interesting.
When I read this, it seems to me the situation of the spec 5 engine, as it was in October 2019.
Is that correct or do you describe the current situation of the further developed spec 5?
I ask that because you are talking about a "modest powergain" and according to my information
the 2020 spec 5 has a big upgrade.

I would also like to know (just like @ Alexf1) how you got this information, because it involves considerable details,
really inside information.
It's spec 1 :) or spec 5 1.1 with a possible 1.2 by testing.

If everything looks good we might have a 1.5 by Melbourne.
The height of cultivation is really nothing special. It is merely simplicity; the ability to express the utmost with the minimum. Mr.Lee

Viruzpunk
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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It s not super clear in my mind but obviously it s probably cause i m noob and still have to learn a lot :D

What Wouter said about spec 5 ( said in october) would be the spec 1 from 2020 and what Godlameroso said on the big focus on the turbo, would be the spec 1.1 who could maybe progress to an 1.5 by Melbourne? Right?

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Viruzpunk wrote:
Fri Jan 24, 2020 9:01 pm
It s not super clear in my mind but obviously it s probably cause i m noob and still have to learn a lot :D

What Wouter said about spec 5 ( said in october) would be the spec 1 from 2020 and what Godlameroso said on the big focus on the turbo, would be the spec 1.1 who could maybe progress to an 1.5 by Melbourne? Right?
They will run two Specifications in winter testing is what i gathered. But those would not be official specs, more like experimental or test units... Till Spec 1 will be whatever lessons learned from testing. Obviously only small changes can be made that fast.. Maybe software mapping and a few smaller parts. And a decision on heavier parts instead of evolution of them.

GhostF1
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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etusch wrote:
Fri Jan 24, 2020 7:28 pm
bigblue wrote:
Fri Jan 24, 2020 6:24 pm
More for fun / interest than anything else (don't shoot the messenger, take aim at Remi Taffin of Renault !) :
"We see a close battle with Mercedes and Ferrari in terms of engine performance," he told Auto Motor und Sport. [...] But we are no longer talking about differences of 50 kilowatts. Between Ferrari, Mercedes and us it's a matter of 5 to 10 kilowatts. And maybe Honda is 15 or 20 kilowatts behind
Not sure exactly when this statement was actually made (if indeed it is an accurate quote), but the grandprix.com article is dated yesterday.

https://www.grandprix.com/news/renault- ... affin.html
If taffin makes true calculations, ferrari's engine advantage was what?
Renault are the only ones who believe they are either top of the pack or equal to Ferrari. It's brand spinning. To the casual fan, they might believe these articles and that's the goal, image pumping, just like this 1000hp gloating they came up with..
But to the more dedicated fan it's obvious it's rubbish and just usual nonsense from Renault. They are not level pegging Ferrari and Ferrari, Merc and Honda all have stated the exact same estimation of competitor performance and place Renault last, although not by much. The issue to me is Renault still have lacklustre reliability, so to be honest it doesn't mean much anyway.

That speaks volumes to me.

Viruzpunk
Viruzpunk
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
Sat Jan 25, 2020 1:12 am

They will run two Specifications in winter testing is what i gathered. But those would not be official specs, more like experimental or test units... Till Spec 1 will be whatever lessons learned from testing. Obviously only small changes can be made that fast.. Maybe software mapping and a few smaller parts. And a decision on heavier parts instead of evolution of them.
I agree and i understood that part. Wouter and me just wanted to make it clear about spec 1, would be an addition of possible spec 5 near ready in october (said as big upgrade) plus the current big focus on turbo ( said by Godlameroso as modest gain), or just the modest gain from turbo ( still crucial, don t underestimate it).

In other way : 2020 spec 1 is : 1). 2019 spec 4 + current focus on turbo (modest hp gain)
Or 2). 2019 spec 4 + part of spec 5 near ready in october + current focus on turbo.?