Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

All that has to do with the power train, gearbox, clutch, fuels and lubricants, etc. Generally the mechanical side of Formula One.
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Wouter
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Capharol wrote:
Mon Jan 27, 2020 6:51 pm
to the person who rated me negativ on the translation of the video
https://i.imgur.com/rhqz3Bo.png
if these translations make any sense to you, then you should start working for google translate.....
and these is only a few seconds of material that is translated, and i am not changing the translation all the time when the translation is BS.
You now place English subtitles here. You speak German yourself. Have you tried the German subtitles yet?
I always use them first and they are very easy to understand, better than English.
On another note.
Can you not understand what the story is about, from the 5 preceding sentences of the difficult to read sentence and
the 5 sentences that follow?

aral
aral
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Once again this thread has gone waaaayyyy off topic. A number of posts should be removed so as to get back to the actual topic which is HONDA PU. Please try not to stray so far away from the subject matter.

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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HPD wrote:
Mon Jan 27, 2020 2:27 pm
Asaki says that Tanabe is a very careful person, but he is also a competitor. Then Tanabe decides to put full power the PU in Austria to get the victory. It is good to read this. #Engine mode 11 position 5

Another interesting thing is the graphics they show, how they solve the problems of MGU-H

https://i.ibb.co/80Z2G7j/mguh1.png

https://i.ibb.co/NsHX4bZ/mguh2.png
Seems like they had the compressor wheel bearing doing double then immediately ran into problems. The fix looks to be one bearing at the maximum deflection point in the middle and a second bearing between mguh and compressor.

U can see the MGUH positioned far away from the heat.
PURPLE POTENTATO
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godlameroso
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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HPD wrote:
Mon Jan 27, 2020 2:27 pm
Asaki says that Tanabe is a very careful person, but he is also a competitor. Then Tanabe decides to put full power the PU in Austria to get the victory. It is good to read this. #Engine mode 11 position 5

Another interesting thing is the graphics they show, how they solve the problems of MGU-H

https://i.ibb.co/80Z2G7j/mguh1.png

https://i.ibb.co/NsHX4bZ/mguh2.png
Makes you wonder what kind of bearings they used in the evolution of the split turbo setup, if they used a journal bearing, or sealed roller bearing? Perhaps they tried ceramic bearings and they were cracking at first due to harmonics. Maybe they used a metallic ceramic hybrid bearings at a small weight penalty. Would journal bearings make sense for such a shaft? The oiling system would probably be complicated to feed and lubricate all bearings properly.
The height of cultivation is really nothing special. It is merely simplicity; the ability to express the utmost with the minimum. Mr.Lee

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langedweil
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Juzh wrote:
Mon Jan 27, 2020 9:25 am
If I remember correctly GB ratios can be adjusted mid-year on every second year. So last year they were stuck with what they had from the start, this year 1 change will be allowed. From my crude observations they ran the shortest ratios on the grid last year. Red bull's 8th gear would be roughly equal to ferrari and renault's 7th for example. Merc was somewhere in between.
Ow, ok .. didn't know that, just thought it was once a year right before the kickoff.
But that's exactly what I meant, their ratio's seemed to be just shorter. Maybe precautionary because they were not too sure about what they would get from Honda (safe), or maybe Honda just Was better dan estimated/calculated.
The latter would be unexpected when you consider the 2018 TR data, dyno info etc etc.
But if true, and if they are able to make the gears longer without really compromising acceleration, than that could be a good step up in this years speed bump ..

Sasha
Sasha
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Latest Japanese autosport magazine as a great story on the Honda GT500.

Specs and diagrams of the now banned F1 like pre-chamber ignition(passive PCI) combustion.

You engine techies will be happy!!!

Go to tentenths forum
Sports car section
2020 super GT
User Japanese samurai posting today

daniellammers
daniellammers
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Capharol wrote:
Mon Jan 27, 2020 6:51 pm
to the person who rated me negativ on the translation of the video

https://i.imgur.com/OaQKRxz.png
https://i.imgur.com/ls2BAyR.png
https://i.imgur.com/rhqz3Bo.png

if these translations make any sense to you, then you should start working for google translate.....
and these is only a few seconds of material that is translated, and i am not changing the translation all the time when the translation is BS

and think twice before you rate me negativly, not sure who it is but in 3 posts i made lately suddenly all 3 got rated negativ so i am asking the mods to turn these back and warn the person or persons in question to leave personal vendetta not influence their judgement

or even better, scratch the negativ rating at all
I'm amazed they got Raikkonen right haha
You won't catch me driving a race car that I have built.

- Colin Chapman

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PlatinumZealot
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Joined: Thu Jun 12, 2008 2:45 am

Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Sasha wrote:
Thu Jan 30, 2020 7:46 pm
Latest Japanese autosport magazine as a great story on the Honda GT500.

Specs and diagrams of the now banned F1 like pre-chamber ignition(passive PCI) combustion.

You engine techies will be happy!!!

Go to tentenths forum
Sports car section
2020 super GT
User Japanese samurai posting today
Thanks. Good post.

It appears to be very similar to the Mahle TJI. Except for one thing.. It seems to be working with just one injector!

If this is 2016, perhaps the rumours were somewhat true. Honda might have been using that NSX engine as test-bed for formula 1 rather than the extremist idea of putting the actual F-1 engine in it! I bet they didnt really need to use the prechamber in super GT.
PURPLE POTENTATO
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LH44

gruntguru
gruntguru
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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daniellammers wrote:
Fri Jan 31, 2020 8:51 am
Capharol wrote:
Mon Jan 27, 2020 6:51 pm
to the person who rated me negativ on the translation of the video

https://i.imgur.com/OaQKRxz.png
https://i.imgur.com/ls2BAyR.png
https://i.imgur.com/rhqz3Bo.png

if these translations make any sense to you, then you should start working for google translate.....
and these is only a few seconds of material that is translated, and i am not changing the translation all the time when the translation is BS

and think twice before you rate me negativly, not sure who it is but in 3 posts i made lately suddenly all 3 got rated negativ so i am asking the mods to turn these back and warn the person or persons in question to leave personal vendetta not influence their judgement

or even better, scratch the negativ rating at all
I'm amazed they got Raikkonen right haha
No - that's a word most people would spell check before putting it in print. :D
je suis charlie

Will123321
Will123321
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Joined: Sun Feb 02, 2020 9:55 pm

Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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It's going to be interesting to see if this rogue NSX makes the way to the Honda test track. Whatever happens, I'm only hoping that somebody will be able to take it to Merc-they seem to be far ahead of the atm game ... it's like 2001 & Ferrari part deux. Don't want any amount of this.

Sasha
Sasha
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Joined: Sun Jul 07, 2013 6:43 am

Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
Sat Feb 01, 2020 3:47 am
Sasha wrote:
Thu Jan 30, 2020 7:46 pm
Latest Japanese autosport magazine as a great story on the Honda GT500.

Specs and diagrams of the now banned F1 like pre-chamber ignition(passive PCI) combustion.

You engine techies will be happy!!!

Go to tentenths forum
Sports car section
2020 super GT
User Japanese samurai posting today
Thanks. Good post.

It appears to be very similar to the Mahle TJI. Except for one thing.. It seems to be working with just one injector!

If this is 2016, perhaps the rumours were somewhat true. Honda might have been using that NSX engine as test-bed for formula 1 rather than the extremist idea of putting the actual F-1 engine in it! I bet they didnt really need to use the prechamber in super GT.
Using Miller cycle and adding more CR every season. PCI added 15 KW first season.

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godlameroso
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Location: Miami FL

Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Does this combustion cycle not cause accelerated valve guide wear?
The height of cultivation is really nothing special. It is merely simplicity; the ability to express the utmost with the minimum. Mr.Lee

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Mudflap
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Why would it?
How much TQ does it make though?

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godlameroso
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Mudflap wrote:
Sat Feb 08, 2020 4:30 pm
Why would it?
Because the exhaust valves are partially held open during combustion, instead of the normal combustion cycle which has the exhaust valve fully closed during combustion. This allows the valve face to absorb the combustion heat and radiate it directly to the cylinder head. If you hold the valve open and allow combustion gas to escape you don't get this direct combustion heat convection to the head, forcing the valve guide to handle the task on its own. Perhaps with different materials and engineering this issue can be largely avoided.

A lot of cars with rigid valvetrains, like the new Porsches, and all Hondas require periodic valve adjustments because the valves ride up the seats and wear with time, eventually the valve clearance gets so tight that the valves no longer fully close. Once that happens valve guide wear is severely accelerated, eventually ovaling the valve seats.

Perhaps my logic is misplaced but if Honda is using a Miller cycle then they're allowing exhaust gases to exit while the exhaust valve is not fully closed, probably the back pressure of the turbine allows something funny to happen.

Most road cars have hydraulic valve lash adjusters that keep the lifters right on the valves via oil pressure. I'm guessing F1 doesn't use this as it adds weight etc.
The height of cultivation is really nothing special. It is merely simplicity; the ability to express the utmost with the minimum. Mr.Lee

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Mudflap
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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godlameroso wrote:
Sat Feb 08, 2020 6:03 pm
Mudflap wrote:
Sat Feb 08, 2020 4:30 pm
Why would it?
Because the exhaust valves are partially held open during combustion, instead of the normal combustion cycle which has the exhaust valve fully closed during combustion. This allows the valve face to absorb the combustion heat and radiate it directly to the cylinder head. If you hold the valve open and allow combustion gas to escape you don't get this direct combustion heat convection to the head, forcing the valve guide to handle the task on its own. Perhaps with different materials and engineering this issue can be largely avoided.
I'm sorry to be blunt but that's complete and utter rubbish.
First of all Miller cycle is all about the inlet valve timing (late closing typically). Why would the exhaust valve even be open during combustion ? That is just plain nonsense.

Secondly, you don't really seem to understand what the different heat transfer mechanisms are and how they work.
First, you say "This allows the valve face to absorb the combustion heat and radiate it directly to the cylinder head."
There is no such thing as valve radiating heat to the head. The heat transfer mechanism between valve, valve seat and head is conduction. The heat transfer mechanism between valve and guide is also conduction.

Then you say " If you hold the valve open and allow combustion gas to escape you don't get this direct combustion heat convection to the head, forcing the valve guide to handle the task on its own."
The primary heat transfer mechanism between the combustion gases and any part they come into contact with is convection. If the exhaust valve would actually stay open during combustion (it doesn't though!) the convective heat transfer would actually increase (there is flow across the valve and the heat transfer coefficient is a function of Reynold's number). Either way, there is a convective heat load on any surface in direct contact with combustion gases, regardless of whether the exhaust valve is open or closed.

And finally, exhaust valves in these highly boosted engines are guaranteed to have sodium filled stems. In such case the heat transfer along the valve stem is greatly increased and hence heat input into the valve guide is also high compared to a conventional engine. Luckily water cooled valve guides have been in use since around WW2.
How much TQ does it make though?