Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

All that has to do with the power train, gearbox, clutch, fuels and lubricants, etc. Generally the mechanical side of Formula One.
hurril
hurril
45
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2014 12:02 pm

Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post

The entire unit looks too small though compared to pictures of the whole power unit. This looks to me like the one in the earliest engines, the ones where this entire turbo machinery assembly was inside the cylinder banks.

saviour stivala
saviour stivala
-15
Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2018 11:54 am

Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post

hurril wrote:
Wed Apr 08, 2020 9:37 am
The entire unit looks too small though compared to pictures of the whole power unit. This looks to me like the one in the earliest engines, the ones where this entire turbo machinery assembly was inside the cylinder banks.
It is too blurred to calculate anything.

User avatar
etusch
103
Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2009 10:09 pm
Location: Turkey

Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post

Wouter wrote:
Wed Apr 08, 2020 9:28 am
etusch wrote:
Wed Apr 08, 2020 7:40 am
It would be great to have eng subs
You can choose the language yourself by activating the subtitle and then choosing your language
in settings under "automatic translation".
Oo thanks I just tried subtitle, there was not any then watched without understanding 😁

saviour stivala
saviour stivala
-15
Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2018 11:54 am

Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post

etusch wrote:
Wed Apr 08, 2020 11:16 am
Wouter wrote:
Wed Apr 08, 2020 9:28 am
etusch wrote:
Wed Apr 08, 2020 7:40 am
It would be great to have eng subs
You can choose the language yourself by activating the subtitle and then choosing your language
in settings under "automatic translation".
Oo thanks I just tried subtitle, there was not any then watched without understanding 😁
The blurring of the turbo/MGU-H assembly is for sure intentional and that spoiled the whole thing. Shame.
I tried subtitles too and I too found nothing.

ispano6
ispano6
146
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2017 10:56 pm
Location: my armchair

Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post

Hit CC to open closed captions, then the gear icon and change the language.

The English auto translate won't give you much details seeing some of the translation talks about eating and other nonsensical stuff.

What they are displaying is likely RA617H internals, possibly RA618H. Wazari-san probably could tell us. A good portion talks about bearing size and thickness can't be too large in order to achieve and maintain peak RPM.

Seeing the internal apparatus of the split turbo in front of the three gentlemen reminds me of how compact this PU really is.

saviour stivala
saviour stivala
-15
Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2018 11:54 am

Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post

ispano6 wrote:
Wed Apr 08, 2020 3:55 pm
Hit CC to open closed captions, then the gear icon and change the language.

The English auto translate won't give you much details seeing some of the translation talks about eating and other nonsensical stuff.

What they are displaying is likely RA617H internals, possibly RA618H. Wazari-san probably could tell us. A good portion talks about bearing size and thickness can't be too large in order to achieve and maintain peak RPM.

Seeing the internal apparatus of the split turbo in front of the three gentlemen reminds me of how compact this PU really is.
What 'internals' of the split Honda turbo have you seen?

User avatar
Wazari
698
Joined: Wed Jun 17, 2015 2:49 pm

Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post

ispano6 wrote:
Wed Apr 08, 2020 3:55 pm
Hit CC to open closed captions, then the gear icon and change the language.

The English auto translate won't give you much details seeing some of the translation talks about eating and other nonsensical stuff.

What they are displaying is likely RA617H internals, possibly RA618H. Wazari-san probably could tell us. A good portion talks about bearing size and thickness can't be too large in order to achieve and maintain peak RPM.

Seeing the internal apparatus of the split turbo in front of the three gentlemen reminds me of how compact this PU really is.
618. The 619 is quite different.
If you can make the opposition flinch, you have already won.

ispano6
ispano6
146
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2017 10:56 pm
Location: my armchair

Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post

saviour stivala wrote:
Wed Apr 08, 2020 5:36 pm
ispano6 wrote:
Wed Apr 08, 2020 3:55 pm
Hit CC to open closed captions, then the gear icon and change the language.

The English auto translate won't give you much details seeing some of the translation talks about eating and other nonsensical stuff.

What they are displaying is likely RA617H internals, possibly RA618H. Wazari-san probably could tell us. A good portion talks about bearing size and thickness can't be too large in order to achieve and maintain peak RPM.

Seeing the internal apparatus of the split turbo in front of the three gentlemen reminds me of how compact this PU really is.
What 'internals' of the split Honda turbo have you seen?
Just what is visible in the video, but as Wazari-san said it's RA618H, likely Spec 2 and after since they are talking about it as if the bearing issues were applied in the demonstration unit. These men standing in front of it aren't that big people mind you, it's a marvel how short the compressor to turbine is which looks like it's still pretty much within the V. The V might have been flattened and spread apart a bit so that the apparatus can reside between the cylinder banks.

User avatar
PlatinumZealot
418
Joined: Thu Jun 12, 2008 2:45 am

Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post

It is commendable that Honda is showing us this. And using ACTUAL engineers to explain it to us.

The European F1 culture is one of secrecy, one of the reasons being that engineering personnel are easily poached once the money and perks are right. The Japanese have a huge language, cultural and geographical barriers so their engineers are mostly safe from poaching and why they can show of their engineers so easily.

These Honda engineers have a very cautious look about them, like, hey be careful of revealing too much!
===================✯✯
============✯✯
====✯✯
LH44

User avatar
godlameroso
373
Joined: Sat Jan 16, 2010 8:27 pm
Location: Miami FL

Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post

The height of cultivation is really nothing special. It is merely simplicity; the ability to express the utmost with the minimum. Mr.Lee

User avatar
etusch
103
Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2009 10:09 pm
Location: Turkey

Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post

Image

En interesting design (at least for me)
Image

gruntguru
gruntguru
453
Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2009 6:43 am

Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post

WOW. Reading the fine print in that first image (It doesn't look fake). Compressor PR is 5:1. Turbine power is "4 city cars". Exhaust temp 1000+*C.

At 5:1 PR the AFR is >2.0 lambda - almost certainly stratified charge on top of TJI. Compressor power perhaps 200 kW. Turbine power perhaps 350 kW.

These numbers have moved along a lot since the early days.
je suis charlie

User avatar
Mudflap
221
Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2016 8:36 pm

Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post

gruntguru wrote:
Sat Apr 11, 2020 1:18 am
At 5:1 PR the AFR is >2.0 lambda
How can you tell ? Massflow rate could still be anything ?
How much TQ does it make though?

gruntguru
gruntguru
453
Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2009 6:43 am

Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post

I didn't bother doing the calcs (I will later) but from memory (using reasonable assumptions) for 3.5 bar MAP, the mass flow was 0.55 and AFR was 1.6 - 1.8.

Assumptions:
- RPM = 11,000
- VE = 1.1 - 1.2
- CAT = 30* - 50* C
- Compressor isentropic efficiency = 0.8
je suis charlie

trinidefender
trinidefender
326
Joined: Fri Apr 19, 2013 7:37 pm

Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post

gruntguru wrote:
Sat Apr 11, 2020 6:19 am
I didn't bother doing the calcs (I will later) but from memory (using reasonable assumptions) for 3.5 bar MAP, the mass flow was 0.55 and AFR was 1.6 - 1.8.

Assumptions:
- RPM = 11,000
- VE = 1.1 - 1.2
- CAT = 30* - 50* C
- Compressor isentropic efficiency = 0.8
I would imagine slightly lower VE due to shaping ports for highly controlled combustion, swirl and tumble. Especially if stratified combustion is used. Wouldn't that push the emphasis away from pure airflow?