Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

All that has to do with the power train, gearbox, clutch, fuels and lubricants, etc. Generally the mechanical side of Formula One.
32Smooth
32Smooth
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Mudflap wrote:
Tue Aug 18, 2020 2:02 pm
All UK based team factories have been closed throughout April and May. To claim they have made progress in that period is tosh.
maybe they forgot to turn off the dynos ;)

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Craigy
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Mudflap wrote:
Tue Aug 18, 2020 2:02 pm
All UK based team factories have been closed throughout April and May. To claim they have made progress in that period is tosh.
This is inaccurate actually. The factories were open with a skeleton staff, but they were working on other projects than F1 (eg. project pitlane)

There are photos from various F1 factories of staff in during that time. eg. https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/arti ... P52fp.html

Teams involved:
*Aston Martin Red Bull Racing,
BWT Racing Point F1 Team,
Haas F1 Team,
McLaren F1 Team,
Mercedes-AMG Petronas F1 Team,
Renault DP World F1 Team,
ROKiT Williams Racing

If I'm not mistaken, that's actually all the UK based teams. The only others are Alpha Tauri and Ferrari in Italy an Alfa Romeo in Switzerland, and I know for a fact that Ferrari had a similar thing going on (people in the factory working on covid things).

RBR have this info on it, including a photo of a renault staffer in the RBR machine room hall: https://www.redbull.com/int-en/redbullr ... ventilator

Revs84
Revs84
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Mudflap wrote:
Tue Aug 18, 2020 2:02 pm
HPD wrote:
Tue Aug 18, 2020 1:48 pm
──Did the Verstappen power unit (PU) come into trouble?
── During the off period from March to July, Mercedes proceeded with further development. Does that mean that the gap has opened up?

Tanabe TD: That's right.

--- Power unit and body?

Tanabe TD: I don't know the proportion, but I think they are both. Working days and growth allowances are simply correlated. "If you work this much for one day, you will make so much progress." That is the normal evolution. Sometimes we fail, but in that case we also recover desperately, so if we cross a certain line we will progress. No teams have been resting since the factory was completely shut down. While the development inclination was maintained for some reason, the inclination of Mercedes was higher than that of us. For that reason, the difference that was originally there opened up. That's what it is.
All UK based team factories have been closed throughout April and May. To claim they have made progress in that period is tosh.
Why not? Although they won't have access to all tools and facilities, there still a lot of work that you can do out of the factory.

I don't know how or how much does the FIA police such shutdowns, but each PU manufacturer also has external partners working in different facilities.

Although it is to be expected that development would have slowed down a bit, I'm pretty sure all PU manufacturers continued with R&D.

The interesting question for me is this; how could possibly Merc outdevelop Honda in this period when the former was during shutdown and the latter was not?

ispano6
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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32Smooth wrote:
Tue Aug 18, 2020 4:00 pm
Mudflap wrote:
Tue Aug 18, 2020 2:02 pm
All UK based team factories have been closed throughout April and May. To claim they have made progress in that period is tosh.
maybe they forgot to turn off the dynos ;)
Or they just continued to have the FE team do the work they couldn't.

holeindalip
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, merc was running turned down last year for cooling issues, now those are solved, plus over the winter gains, formula e gains, fuel gains since they didn’t have any in 2019 and trying to hit the Ferrari benchmark in power and almost burning everyone in the factories out.... and you end up with this.....

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etusch
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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holeindalip wrote:
Tue Aug 18, 2020 8:30 pm
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, merc was running turned down last year for cooling issues, now those are solved, plus over the winter gains, formula e gains, fuel gains since they didn’t have any in 2019 and trying to hit the Ferrari benchmark in power and almost burning everyone in the factories out.... and you end up with this.....
yes you have said. Please explain us what mercedes gained with FE ?

ispano6
ispano6
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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etusch wrote:
Tue Aug 18, 2020 8:49 pm
holeindalip wrote:
Tue Aug 18, 2020 8:30 pm
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, merc was running turned down last year for cooling issues, now those are solved, plus over the winter gains, formula e gains, fuel gains since they didn’t have any in 2019 and trying to hit the Ferrari benchmark in power and almost burning everyone in the factories out.... and you end up with this.....
yes you have said. Please explain us what mercedes gained with FE ?
He never once mentioned Formula E until I brought it up in this thread.

holeindalip
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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etusch wrote:
Tue Aug 18, 2020 8:49 pm
holeindalip wrote:
Tue Aug 18, 2020 8:30 pm
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, merc was running turned down last year for cooling issues, now those are solved, plus over the winter gains, formula e gains, fuel gains since they didn’t have any in 2019 and trying to hit the Ferrari benchmark in power and almost burning everyone in the factories out.... and you end up with this.....
yes you have said. Please explain us what mercedes gained with FE ?
Probably electrical efficiency since that’s what that series is based on????

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etusch
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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holeindalip wrote:
Wed Aug 19, 2020 1:32 am
etusch wrote:
Tue Aug 18, 2020 8:49 pm
holeindalip wrote:
Tue Aug 18, 2020 8:30 pm
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, merc was running turned down last year for cooling issues, now those are solved, plus over the winter gains, formula e gains, fuel gains since they didn’t have any in 2019 and trying to hit the Ferrari benchmark in power and almost burning everyone in the factories out.... and you end up with this.....
yes you have said. Please explain us what mercedes gained with FE ?
Probably electrical efficiency since that’s what that series is based on????
Do you have any insights to tell us? I wonder how they do it very much.

GhostF1
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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etusch wrote:
Wed Aug 19, 2020 7:13 am
holeindalip wrote:
Wed Aug 19, 2020 1:32 am
etusch wrote:
Tue Aug 18, 2020 8:49 pm

yes you have said. Please explain us what mercedes gained with FE ?
Probably electrical efficiency since that’s what that series is based on????
Do you have any insights to tell us? I wonder how they do it very much.

Probably read this. Cowell thinks they've made gains from their FE program

https://insideracing.com/index.php/form ... -formula-e

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etusch
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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GhostF1 wrote:
Wed Aug 19, 2020 7:47 am
etusch wrote:
Wed Aug 19, 2020 7:13 am
holeindalip wrote:
Wed Aug 19, 2020 1:32 am


Probably electrical efficiency since that’s what that series is based on????
Do you have any insights to tell us? I wonder how they do it very much.

Probably read this. Cowell thinks they've made gains from their FE program

https://insideracing.com/index.php/form ... -formula-e
Ok. Firstly, I think, we have to consider that this is an engineering show and they, off course, will say we are competing at FE too.
In FE there are many things standart or producing by different manufacturers. For example batteries comes from mclaren at.
If I am not wrong Mercedes is new at Fe but working with F1 pu for years. And they immidiatly need experiance from FE department? It is a bit strange. Ok maybe they hired experienced guys there. But Fe is full electric and has zero relation with ers. I accept that there can be something to learn from FE. But I don't think there is much for F1. When so much things are standart, manufacturers ( if we can say so for FE) are there for being there generally.

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Big Tea
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Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2017 7:57 pm

Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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GhostF1 wrote:
Wed Aug 19, 2020 7:47 am
etusch wrote:
Wed Aug 19, 2020 7:13 am
holeindalip wrote:
Wed Aug 19, 2020 1:32 am


Probably electrical efficiency since that’s what that series is based on????
Do you have any insights to tell us? I wonder how they do it very much.

Probably read this. Cowell thinks they've made gains from their FE program

https://insideracing.com/index.php/form ... -formula-e
Thanks for that. there was an item in there I had never considered before.

“That’s a tough challenge though because large parts of the engine are made from aluminium and the temperatures that we are operating at mean the material properties are decaying quite rapidly.

I considered moving part ware and actual heat damage internally, but not material damage from heat or heat difference. More to this F1 lark than many realise :mrgreen: (well, me then :oops: )
I am very much in favour of filtered water. Preferably passed through a brewery

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Mudflap
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Craigy wrote:
Tue Aug 18, 2020 4:25 pm
Mudflap wrote:
Tue Aug 18, 2020 2:02 pm
All UK based team factories have been closed throughout April and May. To claim they have made progress in that period is tosh.
This is inaccurate actually. The factories were open with a skeleton staff, but they were working on other projects than F1 (eg. project pitlane)

There are photos from various F1 factories of staff in during that time. eg. https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/arti ... P52fp.html

Teams involved:
*Aston Martin Red Bull Racing,
BWT Racing Point F1 Team,
Haas F1 Team,
McLaren F1 Team,
Mercedes-AMG Petronas F1 Team,
Renault DP World F1 Team,
ROKiT Williams Racing

If I'm not mistaken, that's actually all the UK based teams. The only others are Alpha Tauri and Ferrari in Italy an Alfa Romeo in Switzerland, and I know for a fact that Ferrari had a similar thing going on (people in the factory working on covid things).

RBR have this info on it, including a photo of a renault staffer in the RBR machine room hall: https://www.redbull.com/int-en/redbullr ... ventilator
You are correct, even HPP were doing breathing aids and such.
What I meant to say was that there would not have been any F1 related development in that period. British teams took advantage of the UK furlough scheme to pay most of their employees wages during the shutdown.
nah pop no style

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Mudflap
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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etusch wrote:
Wed Aug 19, 2020 9:39 am
GhostF1 wrote:
Wed Aug 19, 2020 7:47 am
etusch wrote:
Wed Aug 19, 2020 7:13 am

Do you have any insights to tell us? I wonder how they do it very much.

Probably read this. Cowell thinks they've made gains from their FE program

https://insideracing.com/index.php/form ... -formula-e
Ok. Firstly, I think, we have to consider that this is an engineering show and they, off course, will say we are competing at FE too.
In FE there are many things standart or producing by different manufacturers. For example batteries comes from mclaren at.
If I am not wrong Mercedes is new at Fe but working with F1 pu for years. And they immidiatly need experiance from FE department? It is a bit strange. Ok maybe they hired experienced guys there. But Fe is full electric and has zero relation with ers. I accept that there can be something to learn from FE. But I don't think there is much for F1. When so much things are standart, manufacturers ( if we can say so for FE) are there for being there generally.
What are you on about? Do you know what ERS is ?
nah pop no style

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etusch
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Location: Turkey

Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Mudflap wrote:
Wed Aug 19, 2020 10:34 am
etusch wrote:
Wed Aug 19, 2020 9:39 am
GhostF1 wrote:
Wed Aug 19, 2020 7:47 am


Probably read this. Cowell thinks they've made gains from their FE program

https://insideracing.com/index.php/form ... -formula-e
Ok. Firstly, I think, we have to consider that this is an engineering show and they, off course, will say we are competing at FE too.
In FE there are many things standart or producing by different manufacturers. For example batteries comes from mclaren at.
If I am not wrong Mercedes is new at Fe but working with F1 pu for years. And they immidiatly need experiance from FE department? It is a bit strange. Ok maybe they hired experienced guys there. But Fe is full electric and has zero relation with ers. I accept that there can be something to learn from FE. But I don't think there is much for F1. When so much things are standart, manufacturers ( if we can say so for FE) are there for being there generally.
What are you on about? Do you know what ERS is ?
I think you are focused on electric motor part and me to relation of them. FE has not a system working like that way and their energy recuparation also different from formula 1. One's main power is ice other's e.m.