Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

All that has to do with the power train, gearbox, clutch, fuels and lubricants, etc. Generally the mechanical side of Formula One.
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Wouter
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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godlameroso wrote:
Tue Nov 24, 2020 2:08 pm
Mercedes is rumored to be bringing 30hp in their engine which would put them at 1,050hp.
Where did you hear this rumour of 30HP? From Franco Nugnus from Italy?

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godlameroso
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Wouter wrote:
Tue Nov 24, 2020 3:03 pm
godlameroso wrote:
Tue Nov 24, 2020 2:08 pm
Mercedes is rumored to be bringing 30hp in their engine which would put them at 1,050hp.
Where did you hear this rumour of 30HP? From Franco Nugnus from Italy?
Honestly I forgot where I heard it, it might have been around here. Of course a rumor is a rumor and reality is reality. Ferrari is also bringing 30hp with the hopes of matching Renault or Honda, but there's no word of how much Renault or Honda will improve. I doubt Renault has been standing still, and frankly all the manufacturers seem to have unlocked another level of performance. I remember how the 2015 Ferrari was a match for the 2016 Honda power unit until about half way through the season. It's amazing to consider how far Honda has come since then, the step for 2021 is supposed to be the biggest step Honda has made since it came back to the sport.
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Craigy
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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godlameroso wrote:
Tue Nov 24, 2020 4:18 pm
Wouter wrote:
Tue Nov 24, 2020 3:03 pm
godlameroso wrote:
Tue Nov 24, 2020 2:08 pm
Mercedes is rumored to be bringing 30hp in their engine which would put them at 1,050hp.
Where did you hear this rumour of 30HP? From Franco Nugnus from Italy?
Honestly I forgot where I heard it, it might have been around here. Of course a rumor is a rumor and reality is reality. Ferrari is also bringing 30hp with the hopes of matching Renault or Honda, but there's no word of how much Renault or Honda will improve. I doubt Renault has been standing still, and frankly all the manufacturers seem to have unlocked another level of performance. I remember how the 2015 Ferrari was a match for the 2016 Honda power unit until about half way through the season. It's amazing to consider how far Honda has come since then, the step for 2021 is supposed to be the biggest step Honda has made since it came back to the sport.
If we add up all the rumours from each year, the cars would have like 1200bhp by now.

ryaan2904
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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I'm not sure.. I read somewhere, Mercedes reached around 1020 hp only when quali modes were there. Without it they have a little less power. That goes for all teams tho. Its 990 hp for honda, 985 for Renault and 970/980 for Ferrari. It said 980 for Ferrari but i doubt it

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Juzh
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Craigy wrote:
Tue Nov 24, 2020 8:23 pm
godlameroso wrote:
Tue Nov 24, 2020 4:18 pm
Wouter wrote:
Tue Nov 24, 2020 3:03 pm


Where did you hear this rumour of 30HP? From Franco Nugnus from Italy?
Honestly I forgot where I heard it, it might have been around here. Of course a rumor is a rumor and reality is reality. Ferrari is also bringing 30hp with the hopes of matching Renault or Honda, but there's no word of how much Renault or Honda will improve. I doubt Renault has been standing still, and frankly all the manufacturers seem to have unlocked another level of performance. I remember how the 2015 Ferrari was a match for the 2016 Honda power unit until about half way through the season. It's amazing to consider how far Honda has come since then, the step for 2021 is supposed to be the biggest step Honda has made since it came back to the sport.
If we add up all the rumours from each year, the cars would have like 1200bhp by now.
More like 1500.

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Sieper
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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I know right. A few years back I believed those rumours and then now post the Ferrari, non disclosed nothing done wrong but the car lacks power now moment the numbers were actually much lower then claimed.

Mercedes as a team made a big jump last year. I was surpised then, as it give 2014 dominance, and I would be surprised again if hey can make another such jumps. then again, the rest hasn't even caught up yet, like they almost had last year. So they needn't make such a big jump again to still be well clear off the field.
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velizare
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Juzh wrote:
Wed Nov 25, 2020 10:43 am
Craigy wrote:
Tue Nov 24, 2020 8:23 pm
godlameroso wrote:
Tue Nov 24, 2020 4:18 pm


Honestly I forgot where I heard it, it might have been around here. Of course a rumor is a rumor and reality is reality. Ferrari is also bringing 30hp with the hopes of matching Renault or Honda, but there's no word of how much Renault or Honda will improve. I doubt Renault has been standing still, and frankly all the manufacturers seem to have unlocked another level of performance. I remember how the 2015 Ferrari was a match for the 2016 Honda power unit until about half way through the season. It's amazing to consider how far Honda has come since then, the step for 2021 is supposed to be the biggest step Honda has made since it came back to the sport.
If we add up all the rumours from each year, the cars would have like 1200bhp by now.
More like 1500.
that would be a huge step back from renault.

GhostF1
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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velizare wrote:
Wed Nov 25, 2020 8:17 pm
Juzh wrote:
Wed Nov 25, 2020 10:43 am
Craigy wrote:
Tue Nov 24, 2020 8:23 pm


If we add up all the rumours from each year, the cars would have like 1200bhp by now.
More like 1500.
that would be a huge step back from renault.
This. If Renault's claims were to be believed over the years, they're punching well over 2000hp by now.

My main interest is this "new architecture PU" Honda has accelerated development on and brought forward from 2022 for next year. It has Max happy, Christian and Helmut happy. Hmmm.

I'm assuming a lot of it might be to take advantage of the increased bio-fuel content. Shell's F1 chief believe the increased ethanol fuel could give PU manufacturers the opportunity to operate the PU at a different temperature band. So Honda's push might be the biggest hint RBR will be taking over the engine from 2022 when the new fuel regs come into play.
I think Renault are leveraging the new fuel content massively as well. I've heard Cyril say multiple times now that their new engine could be run in 2021 if absolutely necessary but their ideal plan is to introduce it for 2022.

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godlameroso
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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So Ferrari is now moving towards a 2022 engine freeze agreement, which only leaves Renault. Looks like it's possible RBR may get their way, which is actually quite interesting.

https://the-race.com/formula-1/the-ferr ... gine-fate/
The height of cultivation is really nothing special. It is merely simplicity; the ability to express the utmost with the minimum. Mr.Lee

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etusch
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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godlameroso wrote:
Fri Nov 27, 2020 4:14 pm
So Ferrari is now moving towards a 2022 engine freeze agreement, which only leaves Renault. Looks like it's possible RBR may get their way, which is actually quite interesting.

https://the-race.com/formula-1/the-ferr ... gine-fate/
I've read that renault also close to accept it.

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Wouter
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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etusch wrote:
Fri Nov 27, 2020 6:18 pm
godlameroso wrote:
Fri Nov 27, 2020 4:14 pm
So Ferrari is now moving towards a 2022 engine freeze agreement, which only leaves Renault. Looks like it's possible RBR may get their way, which is actually quite interesting.

https://the-race.com/formula-1/the-ferr ... gine-fate/
I've read that renault also close to accept it.
19-11-2020 ...... Ferrari and Renault can obviously imagine stopping development under certain conditions. It shouldn't come until the beginning of 2022 and not the end of 2021.

What is the difference? Manufacturers would get another chance to upgrade their engines in the winter after next. Also against the background that from 2022 E10 instead of E5 fuel will be used. For this an adaptation of the motors is necessary. In a second step, the new engine regulations are to be brought forward from 2026 to 2025. It is supposedly planned that the electric motor will then contribute 60 percent of the total output.
https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/for ... urbo-2022/

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godlameroso
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This is fine, because Honda is said to be bringing forward their 2022 engine, which they will develop throughout 2021. The difference between e5 and e10 is miniscule, it actually opens opportunities. This compromise is ok in my eyes because Honda plans to develop throughout 2021, despite being locked into their engine at the start of the season. If they cannot change specs mid season then you'd have to wonder why they are willing to stay and develop the frozen engine until the end of the year and not to produce a 2022 power unit?
The height of cultivation is really nothing special. It is merely simplicity; the ability to express the utmost with the minimum. Mr.Lee

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etusch
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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godlameroso wrote:
Fri Nov 27, 2020 8:23 pm
This is fine, because Honda is said to be bringing forward their 2022 engine, which they will develop throughout 2021. The difference between e5 and e10 is miniscule, if anything it will improve resistance to knock. This compromise is ok in my eyes because Honda plans to develop throughout 2021, despite being locked into their engine at the start of the season. If they cannot change specs mid season then you'd have to wonder why they are willing to stay and develop the frozen engine until the end of the year and not to produce a 2022 power unit?
Also Redbull can convince Honda to keep working on engine at the last day of the season or last day of the year. And this work can give the engine at least same performance level of these two renault and Ferrari.

Tommy Cookers
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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GhostF1 wrote:
Wed Nov 25, 2020 11:33 pm
..... the increased bio-fuel content. Shell's F1 chief believe the increased ethanol fuel could give PU manufacturers the opportunity to operate the PU at a different temperature band......
(lots of posts mentioning E5 and E10 .....)

the rules don't require bio-ethanol - they require a bio-ingredient

I wonder why would anyone now or ever use bio-ethanol ?
haven't Honda been using bio-butanol ? (as per their articles in the Japanese press)
ethanol's mass-specific energy is very poor - butanol's is much better (much closer to gasoline's)

the rules mention 2nd generation bio components and advanced sustainable components (possible carbon capture/reuse)
they don't mention E5 or E10 or ethanol - and they never have

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godlameroso
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Tommy Cookers wrote:
Fri Nov 27, 2020 10:59 pm
GhostF1 wrote:
Wed Nov 25, 2020 11:33 pm
..... the increased bio-fuel content. Shell's F1 chief believe the increased ethanol fuel could give PU manufacturers the opportunity to operate the PU at a different temperature band......
(lots of posts mentioning E5 and E10 .....)

the rules don't require bio-ethanol - they require a bio-ingredient

I wonder why would anyone now or ever use bio-ethanol ?
haven't Honda been using bio-butanol ? (as per their articles in the Japanese press)
ethanol's mass-specific energy is very poor - butanol's is much better (much closer to gasoline's)

the rules mention 2nd generation bio components and advanced sustainable components (possible carbon capture/reuse)
they don't mention E5 or E10 or ethanol - and they never have
Bio ingredient as in carbon containing compound?
The height of cultivation is really nothing special. It is merely simplicity; the ability to express the utmost with the minimum. Mr.Lee