Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

All that has to do with the power train, gearbox, clutch, fuels and lubricants, etc. Generally the mechanical side of Formula One.
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Wouter
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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ryaan2904 wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:45 am
Well not exactly equal, but enough i guess
I think not exactly equal, but a little bit more. :wink: Serious.

ryaan2904
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Wouter wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 11:03 am
ryaan2904 wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:45 am
Well not exactly equal, but enough i guess
I think not exactly equal, but a little bit more. :wink: Serious.
Lets see 8)

GhostF1
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First video with genuine footage of a new car testing with the new power unit (just note the footage mixes with the StR14 as well, best identifier is the new bargeboards, drivers were in both cars). I shared this in the AT02 thread because it's relevant there. But for PU related discussion, here it is again.


Significantly altered note. The car at the start is the new one and a couple other clips as well. From 3:00 this video is purely audio showcasing the new engine leaving pits. Totally different idle, and a higher note on power.

Jaisonas
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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GhostF1 wrote:
Thu Feb 25, 2021 4:56 am


First video with genuine footage of a new car testing with the new power unit (just note the footage mixes with the StR14 as well, best identifier is the new bargeboards, drivers were in both cars). I shared this in the AT02 thread because it's relevant there. But for PU related discussion, here it is again.


Significantly altered note. The car at the start is the new one and a couple other clips as well. From 3:00 this video is purely audio showcasing the new engine leaving pits. Totally different idle, and a higher note on power.
Best identifier is the flat rear wing in at02, the str14 uses the curved bottom one. You'll notice the difference in 0:36

Jaisonas
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Bozzy's video of the same day but he has structured it better between the cars. New engine sounds alot more aggressive and loud

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godlameroso
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The rear end shakes so violently @ 5:33 Watch the standing start at 5:28.

It sounds good. Imola lets you hear the wastegates aggressively opening. It's glorious.
The height of cultivation is really nothing special. It is merely simplicity; the ability to express the utmost with the minimum. Mr.Lee

maguetox
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Jaisonas wrote:
Thu Feb 25, 2021 2:46 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-CZe_jIdBtc
Bozzy's video of the same day but he has structured it better between the cars. New engine sounds alot more aggressive and loud
Correct the new engine sound different, the sound @ 5:08 reminds me like the sounds when you apply the engine brake on an diesel engine, something similar.

Roostfactor
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So now we have had both AT and Red Bull trial the new pu without any issues (that I know of).

Great news heading into testing with much data for Honda to comb through the next couple weeks.

Well done so far Honda! Keep pushing! =D>

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PlatinumZealot
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The change of combustion concept after 2018 really pulled through in the end.

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godlameroso
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PlatinumZealot wrote:
Mon Mar 01, 2021 7:03 pm
The change of combustion concept after 2018 really pulled through in the end.
There are still many challenges to ensure reliability and durability of components. Components can be reliable and not durable, durable but not reliable.

Durability refers to how long it takes for a part to wear out, reliability refers to how long it takes a part to fail. A part can be worn out and not fail.

For instance, piston rings can be worn, or valve guides can be slightly loose, or timing chain slightly stretched. How long these parts are serviceable is their durability. How long until the timing chain stretches enough that cam timing is affected, or the piston rings are worn enough for the engine to not perform, and it starts smoking? That is the reliability.

The two concepts are interrelated in the quest for flawless functioning. The demands on the engine is extremely severe, and thus requires extreme strength, and extreme hardness is extremely difficult to work properly.
The height of cultivation is really nothing special. It is merely simplicity; the ability to express the utmost with the minimum. Mr.Lee

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ispano6
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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godlameroso wrote:
Tue Mar 02, 2021 4:19 am
PlatinumZealot wrote:
Mon Mar 01, 2021 7:03 pm
The change of combustion concept after 2018 really pulled through in the end.
There are still many challenges to ensure reliability and durability of components. Components can be reliable and not durable, durable but not reliable.

Durability refers to how long it takes for a part to wear out, reliability refers to how long it takes a part to fail. A part can be worn out and not fail.

For instance, piston rings can be worn, or valve guides can be slightly loose, or timing chain slightly stretched. How long these parts are serviceable is their durability. How long until the timing chain stretches enough that cam timing is affected, or the piston rings are worn enough for the engine to not perform, and it starts smoking? That is the reliability.

The two concepts are interrelated in the quest for flawless functioning. The demands on the engine is extremely severe, and thus requires extreme strength, and extreme hardness is extremely difficult to work properly.
The RA621H will be the culmination of the learnings and limits understood with the RA620H and its new materials. Now that they have had a full year running that PU, the RA621H is packed with new technology that realizes the potential that the RA620H couldn't. The RA621H is supposedly meeting it's expected performance targets so what it comes down to is durability and longevity. Yamamoto has high expectations, calling it "A season for the record books".

saviour stivala
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Was Yamamoto really talking ‘timing chains stretch’ re RA620H – RA621H?.

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godlameroso
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saviour stivala wrote:
Wed Mar 03, 2021 7:45 am
Was Yamamoto really talking ‘timing chains stretch’ re RA620H – RA621H?.
There's no timing chain it's timing gears.

Although I'm of the opinion a good chain and tensioner is as good as any gearset up to 14k rpm. Gears are easier to package however.

With a chain you need sprockets, guides, and a tensioner. Timing gears are just sprockets.

That brings up another interesting point, where would a chain be useful in these power units? Maybe the MGU-K to crankshaft? Scavenge pumps? Fuel pump? If there is a pump being driven by the MGU-K it's location would perhaps warrant a chain, or a series of idler gears?

A chain is 3 points of friction, whereas gears is one point of friction, albeit a different type of friction(shear EP type, requiring it's own type of lubrication/additives). Then that begs the question would a chain lower friction and improve efficiency if say you are using 4 or 5 sprockets to run a pump vs two sprockets a chain and a tensioner?

The new API oil specs include chain wear as part of their testing, I sometimes wonder where API gets its ideas from, surely because OE's are putting timing chains in all their engines has something to do with testing requirements. But this is way off topic.
The height of cultivation is really nothing special. It is merely simplicity; the ability to express the utmost with the minimum. Mr.Lee

saviour stivala
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When was the last time that 'timing-chain/s/sprockets/tensioner/s' drive system used by a formula one engine?. i would think that if there was the slightest advantage by a chain and sprockets drive (driving anything on an F1 engine) they would be used instead of gear-drives.

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PlatinumZealot
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No chains.
Heavy.
They resonate at lower frquencies.

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