Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

All that has to do with the power train, gearbox, clutch, fuels and lubricants, etc. Generally the mechanical side of Formula One.
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Craigy
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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trinidefender wrote:
Mon Apr 12, 2021 4:24 am
nzjrs wrote:
Mon Apr 12, 2021 12:10 am
For some reason I have in my mind that the fuel tank bladder? Size? The whole thing? Is a standard part. Is that correct?
It's not. They do have to be built out of approved materials and I believe by approved suppliers.
They are all built by ATL in Milton Keynes, but for every chassis they will be different, and so will the baffles within them.

trinidefender
trinidefender
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Craigy wrote:
Tue Apr 13, 2021 3:10 pm
trinidefender wrote:
Mon Apr 12, 2021 4:24 am
nzjrs wrote:
Mon Apr 12, 2021 12:10 am
For some reason I have in my mind that the fuel tank bladder? Size? The whole thing? Is a standard part. Is that correct?
It's not. They do have to be built out of approved materials and I believe by approved suppliers.
They are all built by ATL in Milton Keynes, but for every chassis they will be different, and so will the baffles within them.
Interesting that a singular manufacturer has the contract for every team. Although I was just answering his question as best I could. While this company may currently produce all the fuel cells doesn't mean that another company theoretically can't as long as they are FIA approved. Unless the regulations have changed from before which I'm not aware of.

More importantly is that it isn't a standard part and the design and baffling is still done by the individualteams themselves.

Upon further research I found this link:
http://www.formula1-dictionary.net/fuel ... ufacturer.

"ATL (Aero Tec Laboratories) is only FIA approved Kevlar reinforced fuel cell manufacturer, and all F1 teams using products from this manufacturer"

The information seems a little old but as of yet I haven't found anything more up to date.

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ispano6
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Anyone else tired of seeing the "Honda admits to underestimating integration issues" article at the top of the Honda Power Unit Hardware and Software thread? Seems like it can be updated with a more deserving article.

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godlameroso
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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They have made leaps and bounds in those 4 years.
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Capharol
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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ispano6 wrote:
Tue Apr 13, 2021 8:32 pm
Anyone else tired of seeing the "Honda admits to underestimating integration issues" article at the top of the Honda Power Unit Hardware and Software thread? Seems like it can be updated with a more deserving article.
totaly agree
Strive for continuous improvement, instead of perfection.
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Craigy
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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trinidefender wrote:
Tue Apr 13, 2021 8:20 pm
Craigy wrote:
Tue Apr 13, 2021 3:10 pm
trinidefender wrote:
Mon Apr 12, 2021 4:24 am


It's not. They do have to be built out of approved materials and I believe by approved suppliers.
They are all built by ATL in Milton Keynes, but for every chassis they will be different, and so will the baffles within them.
Interesting that a singular manufacturer has the contract for every team. Although I was just answering his question as best I could. While this company may currently produce all the fuel cells doesn't mean that another company theoretically can't as long as they are FIA approved. Unless the regulations have changed from before which I'm not aware of.

More importantly is that it isn't a standard part and the design and baffling is still done by the individualteams themselves.

Upon further research I found this link:
http://www.formula1-dictionary.net/fuel ... ufacturer.

"ATL (Aero Tec Laboratories) is only FIA approved Kevlar reinforced fuel cell manufacturer, and all F1 teams using products from this manufacturer"

The information seems a little old but as of yet I haven't found anything more up to date.
ATL bag tanks are ubiquitous in F1 simply because there isn't anything a team could do in-house (or with a different supplier) that ATL couldn't & for less money. ATL have been doing it for all of the teams for so long that the process is flexible enough to cope with anything the teams can feasibly ask for. Historically there was another manufacturer of bag tanks, but that's going back to the 80s.

Similar is true of some of the other industrial-lego type things inside the cars (moog valves, for example, or some of the electrical connectors). Sure the teams could do this themselves, but the performance to be gained from doing so (if any) would come at a cost, and that money is effectively better spent elsewhere.

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Whta is this Honda are close to engine penalties I have been hearing?
Control electronics?
.. OG.. OG.. OG.. OG..
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Lock2nl
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Where's this gossip coming from?

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MtthsMlw
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Sieper
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Yuki was last anyway. And crashed with the backend first. I am sure it was both precaution as an opportunity to try new parts. Or, if existing spec, run them harder now to see what gives.
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ispano6
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Lock2nl wrote:
Wed Apr 21, 2021 6:14 pm
Where's this gossip coming from?
It's not new news actually, Tanabe has been transparent about the issues. What's good is that they've taken good care to look after Max's as he has had no replacement components thus far. If they can push the other car's components to identify reliability problems then Max's can be used conservatively. Tanabe has said Honda will continue to develop the PUs and they can make reliability fixes as the season progresses. Better to push for performance and make those reliability fixes. The ICE appears to be robust, so it's about identifying what's plaguing the CE and ES.

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Wouter
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Developing Our 2021 Power Unit

"The original plan was to implement this new structure PU this year in 2021," Asaki-san explains. "But then for a variety of reasons, it was decided not to proceed with a brand new PU. However, the thinking on this really changed when Honda announced that we would be leaving the sport. I went to President Hachigo, and said to him that we would really like to implement this new structure PU for our last year in the sport. And he kindly accepted that request.

"With the green light given, our engineers got to work on trying to get everything ready for the new season. That was never going to be an easy task, given the scope of the changes being made to the power unit's architecture.
https://honda.racing/f1/post/behind-the-2021-honda-power-uni t

Image

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etusch
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Honda has given an unusually detailed insight into the development of its 2021 Formula 1 power unit, which scored its first victory in the hands of Max Verstappen at Imola./quote]

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/hond ... e/6417395/
With the Milton Keynes-based team ramping up its efforts ahead of the takeover of Honda engines, long-time Mercedes employee Ben Hodgkinson will join the programme.

Hodgkinson has been head of mechanical engineering at Mercedes' High Performance Powertrains since 2017, having worked at the German car manufacturer's Brixworth headquarters for 20 years.
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/red- ... r/6418258/

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ispano6
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Will try and find out which of the Japanese staff will transfer over, if any. Maybe Motohashi and a few more, at least for a few years.
While Red Bull is beginning its project by taking over the Honda engine, and will keep some of the Japanese manufacturer’s current staff, its longer term focus is on producing a new power unit for the 2025 regulations.
...
“We're going to inherit some great people and talent from Honda, but we are absolutely committed to getting the right people in the right roles in an efficient manner that integrates fully with the chassis side of the business.”

mzso
mzso
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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So Honda still has two more PU updates to develop, right?
One this years, and the final for last year, to be homologated.