Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

All that has to do with the power train, gearbox, clutch, fuels and lubricants, etc. Generally the mechanical side of Formula One.
Sasha
Sasha
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Re: Honda Power Unit

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Also isn't funny the bad news about the Honda PU is coming from the Italian Auto Press.

They would write anything to keep Alonso at Ferrari!!!

If you know anything about the Japanese,they don't share their dirty laundry or talk to outsiders.
The only people to build the biggest battleship under the noses of the Royal Navy and US Navy.
The Germans,Italian or Russians couldn't do that.

xpensive
xpensive
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Re: Honda Power Unit

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I still believe that the Honda got a head start by acquiring the PURE design, led by the man who wrote the rules, Gilles Simon.

The ICE rules are so strict that the design would be the same anyway, with only some fine tuning of the combustion, gas flow etc.
"I spent most of my money on wine and women...I wasted the rest"

mrluke
mrluke
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Re: Honda Power Unit

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Sasha wrote:Also isn't funny the bad news about the Honda PU is coming from the Italian Auto Press.

They would write anything to keep Alonso at Ferrari!!!

If you know anything about the Japanese,they don't share their dirty laundry or talk to outsiders.
The only people to build the biggest battleship under the noses of the Royal Navy and US Navy.
The Germans,Italian or Russians couldn't do that.
OT but China "built" an aircraft carrier before the US realised.
Sasha wrote:Honda way is they will just give you that dumb look when asked about their engine then only give very short answers that gets the reporter thinking they done nothing/behind on project or having problems.

When Honda greenlights a F1 PU,they test all the different types like it was a University reserch project.So there could be 2-5 PU types being tested at the moment.And for the first year they normally use the safe one(down on power but reliable)then add power later but this new Honda Management are now taking chances(just look at the new 2015 CR-V with 160ps 1.6L Diesel and ZF 9-Speed AT...that's not the old Honda!)
IIRC I was reading in racecar engineering that Honda build or at least mock up engines for just about every motorsport as reseach projects, even when they have no intention of competing :)

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Pierce89
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Re: Honda Power Unit

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Sasha wrote:Honda way is they will just give you that dumb look when asked about their engine then only give very short answers that gets the reporter thinking they done nothing/behind on project or having problems.

When Honda greenlights a F1 PU,they test all the different types like it was a University reserch project.So there could be 2-5 PU types being tested at the moment.And for the first year they normally use the safe one(down on power but reliable)then add power later but this new Honda Management are now taking chances(just look at the new 2015 CR-V with 160ps 1.6L Diesel and ZF 9-Speed AT...that's not the old Honda!)
Really, that is exactly the old Honda.
“To be able to actually make something is awfully nice”
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ScottB
ScottB
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Re: Honda Power Unit

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mrluke wrote:
Sasha wrote:Also isn't funny the bad news about the Honda PU is coming from the Italian Auto Press.

They would write anything to keep Alonso at Ferrari!!!

If you know anything about the Japanese,they don't share their dirty laundry or talk to outsiders.
The only people to build the biggest battleship under the noses of the Royal Navy and US Navy.
The Germans,Italian or Russians couldn't do that.
OT but China "built" an aircraft carrier before the US realised.
Sasha wrote:Honda way is they will just give you that dumb look when asked about their engine then only give very short answers that gets the reporter thinking they done nothing/behind on project or having problems.

When Honda greenlights a F1 PU,they test all the different types like it was a University reserch project.So there could be 2-5 PU types being tested at the moment.And for the first year they normally use the safe one(down on power but reliable)then add power later but this new Honda Management are now taking chances(just look at the new 2015 CR-V with 160ps 1.6L Diesel and ZF 9-Speed AT...that's not the old Honda!)
IIRC I was reading in racecar engineering that Honda build or at least mock up engines for just about every motorsport as reseach projects, even when they have no intention of competing :)
The number of car concepts they built last time round certainly suggests they'll have explored as many avenues as possible with the engine...

Sasha
Sasha
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Re: Honda Power Unit

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Arai Yasuhisa told Autosport Japan that they haven't decided yet which compressor type they will use yet.

I think that final dicision will be made with Mclaren.

Main reason to put the compressor in front of the engine is for heat and then less lag.

Renault and Ferrari biggest problem with their PU was they used a too small of a turbine.They did a small turbine because they where worried about turbo lag but what they learned from Mercedes is that making more e-power over a whole lap is more important.

Sasha
Sasha
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Re: Honda Power Unit

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A Honda PU will be in a Mclaren at the Abu Dhabi test next month.

Facts Only
Facts Only
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Richard wrote:The current status in their own words:
Yasuhisa Arai, Senior Managing Officer of Honda R&D Co., Ltd. wrote:In addition to conducting simulations, we have moved onto the next stage where we conduct full-fledged bench tests of the engine while connecting the turbocharger and energy recovery systems.
That still doesn't tell us much, only that they've moved onto the stage when the physical bits are bolted together. He doesn't even give a hint of a past or future tense. That statement could be true if the bits are in boxes on the way to the bench test. Equally it could also be true if the unit has had 1000's of hours of testing and demonstrated mind blowingly huge power with the frugality of fasting Cistercian.

ps - Don't forget the Merc PU press release showed a combined compressor and turbine ... http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/ima ... 662404.jpg
Exactly, the vagueness on the timing is the worrying bit. Mercedes were running these "bench tests" in late 2011, Renault in early 2012 so a good two years before in car running. Unless Honda have been doing it for 18 months already they are going to be struggling.
"A pretentious quote taken out of context to make me look deep" - Some old racing driver

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KingHamilton01
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Re: Honda Power Unit

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so much negativity around the honda PU it's almost like people want McLaren and honda to fail! Honda come out and deny there behind with development of there engine and most people come out and say they are lying and are struggling! why don't we just stop with the speculation and see how good the engine is hopefully when it run's at the end of season test which I believe it will.
McLaren Mercedes

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Kiril Varbanov
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KingHamilton01 wrote:so much negativity around the honda PU it's almost like people want McLaren and honda to fail!
At this point is rather speculation than negativity. And as usual, there are barely just a handful of people knowing the whole truth. So, don't take anything seriously at this point.

RobertPthe3rd
RobertPthe3rd
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I don't want anyone to purposely fail. But McLaren have the best engine this year by a good percentage. Chances are the honda will either have reliability problems just like the renault or they will be down on power. Or both! The chance of them upstaging Merc is about half of half of half of one percent. So expect Mclaren to be even further behind unless they figure out some miraclulous loop hole in the chassis or engine regulations. History says that Merc will likely hold an advantage until the next radical rule change. Maybe not as large as this year but still an advantage. There is still also the problem of lead driver. Jenson is good, but only lucked into a wdc with brawn and has been avg. Or worse his whole career. If Alonso or Lewis don't join they are sunk. Although I think Kevin could be a star of the future. If the stewards cut him alittle slack.

xpensive
xpensive
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Re: Honda Power Unit

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The biggest scare is if Honda gets it wrong for 2015, they will be trapped by the engine-freeze forever.

I certainly hope that Gilles Simon is there and that development started already with him at PURE.
"I spent most of my money on wine and women...I wasted the rest"

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McLobby
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RobertPthe3rd wrote:I don't want anyone to purposely fail. But McLaren have the best engine this year by a good percentage.
That's true, but this is a transition year for McLaren, and Mercedes may didn't share the same software or valuable tech info that the other Mercedes powered teams have... being a works team is a different story even if the Honda engine is not going to be as good as Mercedes, finding the perfect balance between engine and chassis is what really matters.
Furthermore there is nothing to suggest Mclaren will use the same chassis or aerodynamic specs as this years car. with all the staff changes and the input of Peter there is going to be a different approach next year. Good or bad I don't know, we'll wait and see.
RobertPthe3rd wrote: Chances are the honda will either have reliability problems just like the renault or they will be down on power. Or both! The chance of them upstaging Merc is about half of half of half of one percent.
How can you know that? there is a long time still until Feb 2015 only then we'll know.

RobertPthe3rd wrote:There is still also the problem of lead driver. Jenson is good, but only lucked into a wdc with brawn and has been avg. Or worse his whole career.
Someone could say the same thing about Vettel, especially after this years season so far,
In fact Jenson was driving mostly mediocre cars throughout his career, If Button was driving this years Mercedes, or the past seasons Redbull, people would think different of him.

trinidefender
trinidefender
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Re: Honda Power Unit

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RobertPthe3rd wrote:I don't want anyone to purposely fail. But McLaren have the best engine this year by a good percentage. Chances are the honda will either have reliability problems just like the renault or they will be down on power. Or both! The chance of them upstaging Merc is about half of half of half of one percent. So expect Mclaren to be even further behind unless they figure out some miraclulous loop hole in the chassis or engine regulations. History says that Merc will likely hold an advantage until the next radical rule change. Maybe not as large as this year but still an advantage. There is still also the problem of lead driver. Jenson is good, but only lucked into a wdc with brawn and has been avg. Or worse his whole career. If Alonso or Lewis don't join they are sunk. Although I think Kevin could be a star of the future. If the stewards cut him alittle slack.
McLaren had the best engine *running a fuel and oil combination that have them something like a 30 hp deficit over the other merc teams according to some reports. Supposedly they brought a new fuel a few races back which has closed the difference a bit.

Who knows what next year will hold as McLaren is currently undergoing a massive recruitment drive and reshuffling of management and management structure. They also have huge amounts of money coming in.

That's why I will reserve judgement on how they will stand at the beginning of next season.

To bring this this back on topic, all we can do is go by what people report and try to judge it for accuracy. There is no point going off on wild goose chases about little snippets of information on if the engine is ahead or behind schedule.

Honda is investing massive amounts of money and I personally see the fact that they are confident enough to try to test the car this year as a good sign.

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PlatinumZealot
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Anybody who knows Honda can tell you that these guys had this new PU running AGES ago!
They aint stoopid! They know what is at stake here. The engine is ready and it has done countless miles on the simulator and has been through countless developments.
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