Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

All that has to do with the power train, gearbox, clutch, fuels and lubricants, etc. Generally the mechanical side of Formula One.
saviour stivala
51
Joined: 25 Apr 2018, 12:54

Re: Ferrari Power Unit

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"As defined in the terminology of the federation international de l'automobile. KERS is designed to recover energy from the car during "BRAKING", store that energy and make it available to propel the car".

"The stored energy must come sollely through "BRAKING" unlike road going hybrids".

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Zynerji
111
Joined: 27 Jan 2016, 16:14

Re: Ferrari Power Unit

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saviour stivala wrote:
15 Jul 2018, 13:37
"As defined in the terminology of the federation international de l'automobile. KERS is designed to recover energy from the car during "BRAKING", store that energy and make it available to propel the car".

"The stored energy must come sollely through "BRAKING" unlike road going hybrids".
Wheel braking, or engine braking?

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henry
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Joined: 23 Feb 2004, 20:49
Location: England

Re: Ferrari Power Unit

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saviour stivala wrote:
15 Jul 2018, 13:37
"As defined in the terminology of the federation international de l'automobile. KERS is designed to recover energy from the car during "BRAKING", store that energy and make it available to propel the car".

"The stored energy must come sollely through "BRAKING" unlike road going hybrids".
What does your source say about the MGU-H. Does it say energy may come solely from the waste heat in the exhaust?
Fortune favours the prepared; she has no favourites and takes no sides.
Truth is confirmed by inspection and delay; falsehood by haste and uncertainty : Tacitus

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henry
324
Joined: 23 Feb 2004, 20:49
Location: England

Re: Ferrari Power Unit

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saviour stivala wrote:
15 Jul 2018, 13:37
"As defined in the terminology of the federation international de l'automobile. KERS is designed to recover energy from the car during "BRAKING", store that energy and make it available to propel the car".

"The stored energy must come sollely through "BRAKING" unlike road going hybrids".
I found your quotes in an article from 2011 in Road and Track. [urlhttps://www.roadandtrack.com/motorsports/news/a ... mingagain/][/url]

It’s not surprising that the author should not have a good understanding of a formula that was 3 years away. The regulations were first published in 2013.

Once again you quote as a source of fact a journalist who, through no fault of his own, is wrong.

I look forward to your response to my question about the MGU-H. Think carefully, there might be a supplementary.
Fortune favours the prepared; she has no favourites and takes no sides.
Truth is confirmed by inspection and delay; falsehood by haste and uncertainty : Tacitus

saviour stivala
51
Joined: 25 Apr 2018, 12:54

Re: Ferrari Power Unit

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Zynerji wrote:
15 Jul 2018, 13:39
saviour stivala wrote:
15 Jul 2018, 13:37
"As defined in the terminology of the federation international de l'automobile. KERS is designed to recover energy from the car during "BRAKING", store that energy and make it available to propel the car".

"The stored energy must come sollely through "BRAKING" unlike road going hybrids".
Wheel braking, or engine braking?
In F1 unlike owr friend's Honda CR-Z rear wheels only braking.

saviour stivala
51
Joined: 25 Apr 2018, 12:54

Re: Ferrari Power Unit

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henry wrote:
15 Jul 2018, 14:14
saviour stivala wrote:
15 Jul 2018, 13:37
"As defined in the terminology of the federation international de l'automobile. KERS is designed to recover energy from the car during "BRAKING", store that energy and make it available to propel the car".

"The stored energy must come sollely through "BRAKING" unlike road going hybrids".
I found your quotes in an article from 2011 in Road and Track. [urlhttps://www.roadandtrack.com/motorsports/news/a ... mingagain/][/url]

It’s not surprising that the author should not have a good understanding of a formula that was 3 years away. The regulations were first published in 2013.

Once again you quote as a source of fact a journalist who, through no fault of his own, is wrong.

I look forward to your response to my question about the MGU-H. Think carefully, there might be a supplementary.
Everything and everybody I quotes is wrong, so what is the use of dialoguing with you?. That’s apart from me being on an ignore list.

saviour stivala
51
Joined: 25 Apr 2018, 12:54

Re: Ferrari Power Unit

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henry wrote:
15 Jul 2018, 13:58
saviour stivala wrote:
15 Jul 2018, 13:37
"As defined in the terminology of the federation international de l'automobile. KERS is designed to recover energy from the car during "BRAKING", store that energy and make it available to propel the car".

"The stored energy must come sollely through "BRAKING" unlike road going hybrids".
What does your source say about the MGU-H. Does it say energy may come solely from the waste heat in the exhaust?
energy harvested yes from waste heat.

Tommy Cookers
617
Joined: 17 Feb 2012, 16:55

Re: Ferrari Power Unit

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again - in this journalist explanation of a now-obsolete rule set

is this rear wheel mechanical braking only ?
or rear wheel engine braking ie whenever the accelerator and brake pedals are at zero ?

these rules allowed accelerator-off 'over-run torque' to be zero at rpm below 15000
and any ORT at rpm above 15000

wuzak
434
Joined: 30 Aug 2011, 03:26

Re: Ferrari Power Unit

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saviour stivala wrote:
15 Jul 2018, 13:37
"As defined in the terminology of the federation international de l'automobile. KERS is designed to recover energy from the car during "BRAKING", store that energy and make it available to propel the car".

"The stored energy must come sollely through "BRAKING" unlike road going hybrids".
The definition in the FIA F1 regulations is:

1.25 Motor Generator Unit - Kinetic (MGU-K) :
The Kinetic Motor Generator Unit is the electrical machine mechanically linked to the drive train as part of the ERS.

The word braking does not appear.

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henry
324
Joined: 23 Feb 2004, 20:49
Location: England

Re: Ferrari Power Unit

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saviour stivala wrote:
15 Jul 2018, 14:52
henry wrote:
15 Jul 2018, 14:14
saviour stivala wrote:
15 Jul 2018, 13:37
"As defined in the terminology of the federation international de l'automobile. KERS is designed to recover energy from the car during "BRAKING", store that energy and make it available to propel the car".

"The stored energy must come sollely through "BRAKING" unlike road going hybrids".
I found your quotes in an article from 2011 in Road and Track. [urlhttps://www.roadandtrack.com/motorsports/news/a ... mingagain/][/url]

It’s not surprising that the author should not have a good understanding of a formula that was 3 years away. The regulations were first published in 2013.

Once again you quote as a source of fact a journalist who, through no fault of his own, is wrong.

I look forward to your response to my question about the MGU-H. Think carefully, there might be a supplementary.
Everything and everybody I quotes is wrong, so what is the use of dialoguing with you?. That’s apart from me being on an ignore list.
You have demonstrated the ability to reason about these issues on your own without resorting to third parties for support. All you need to do is look at the regulations and think about the issues. There are many on this forum who will help if some points are unclear.

I removed you from my ignore list and apologised for being rude. You may not have seen that because of housekeeping by the mods.

I was going to bring forward a discussion of Honda’s “extra harvest mode” which is legal because they have publicised it and the FIA have not banned it. It uses the MGU-K, driven by the ICE, to drive the MGU-H harvest energy to the ES. It’s an example of the MGU-K harvesting energy from the ICE and not from braking.

Do you want to discuss this?
Fortune favours the prepared; she has no favourites and takes no sides.
Truth is confirmed by inspection and delay; falsehood by haste and uncertainty : Tacitus

Tommy Cookers
617
Joined: 17 Feb 2012, 16:55

Re: Ferrari Power Unit

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the Honda telemetry can be found on P845 (Hino post 1314) and at the end of P844 - of the Honda PU thread

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henry
324
Joined: 23 Feb 2004, 20:49
Location: England

Re: Ferrari Power Unit

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Tommy Cookers wrote:
15 Jul 2018, 15:52
the Honda telemetry can be found on P845 (Hino post 1314) and at the end of P844 - of the Honda PU thread
Thanks. Here’s a link for anyone who’s interested. viewtopic.php?p=733944#p733944
Fortune favours the prepared; she has no favourites and takes no sides.
Truth is confirmed by inspection and delay; falsehood by haste and uncertainty : Tacitus

LM10
119
Joined: 07 Mar 2018, 00:07

Re: Ferrari Power Unit

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Can someone please explain me what the benefits and disadvantages of a twin-battery like Ferrari's might be? Why is it only them using it? Does it probably allow them their current "trick"?

hurril
54
Joined: 07 Oct 2014, 13:02

Re: Ferrari Power Unit

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LM10 wrote:
15 Jul 2018, 16:52
Can someone please explain me what the benefits and disadvantages of a twin-battery like Ferrari's might be? Why is it only them using it? Does it probably allow them their current "trick"?
I've never quite understood what this new trick is supposed to entail. Are there any guesses? What do you think it is?

roon
412
Joined: 17 Dec 2016, 19:04

Re: Ferrari Power Unit

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Assuming an average full-throttle lap time of ~64s, a fully utilized MGUK (as regulated) will consume a minimum of approximately 8MJ/lap, plus whatever is used at part and zero throttle. The ES can only send 4MJ to the MGUK (as regulated), so the remaining 4+MJ must be supplied by the MGUH via the ES or ICE. Said another way:

ES fed MGUK (per lap energy use)
Deploy: ≤4MJ at ≤120kW
Regen: ≤2MJ at ≤120kW

MGUH (via ICE and/or ES) fed MGUK (per lap energy use)
Deploy: ≥4MJ at ≤120kW
Regen: ≥4MJ at ≤120kW

The ES cannot vary in charge more than 4MJ per lap, so in order to deliver >8MJ per lap it must charge and discharge multiple times per lap. Two or more ES divisions (chemical or virtual) will alter how this charge cycling is allotted. No comment on the actual peak capacity of the ES.

Edit: clarified message.
Last edited by roon on 16 Jul 2018, 00:07, edited 2 times in total.

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