Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

[saviour stivala]

Thanks. That will be helpful.

Linebeer first research paper november 2013. at around the same time, a presentaion of work at matlab (vidio). secoond paper (faster, higher and greener) adition futuring SPA published april 2015. all this can be downloaded for free, papers in PDF. by visiting "McCabism: optimal control theory and FERRARI'S turbo-electric hybrid" and follow instructions as were to click to download, the McCabism report is initself a must read to fully understand what and how things undolded.

Thanks again. I already have the first 2 so I’d be grateful if you could simply cut and paste from your copy of the third the definition of “free load mode”.

While you’re at it could you possibly do me the favour of revisiting this post. viewtopic.php?f=4&t=18874&start=12660. It’s the excellent Japanese article translated for us by user Hino. Last time you looked at it it was in connection with ERS. This time I’d like you to look at the pictures showing the wastegate(s). Usefully there is a caption next to one of the images of the 2016 motor labelled “wastegates”.

I hope you will see in that image that the wastegates are directly connected to the scroll housing of the turbine.

Thanks

between the end of the manifold and the scroll housing, that's before the scroll housing, waste gates that are build-in into the scroll housing vents/relieve exhaust pressure inside the scroll housing itself and direct the exhaust gasses to the outlet of the scroll housing, that design will not require a waste gate dedicated exhaust pipe.

[restless]

I apologize for offtopic question:
Can someone give a link to the rule that mandates usage of spare engines?
Is it explicitely written when "old" engines can be used ?

[saviour stivala]

There no 4Mj max per lap saviour stivala. Plz go look and see the difference between KW and KWh

There is no 33 sec limit and there is no Mj limit h to k.

120kw is not the limit how long you may generate 161bhp. Its the max limit of horsepower given at any time to the crank.


H generates as much KWh/Mj as you can do no limit. The k uses KWh/Mj from the H as much as it likes no limit. But the K may not make more the 120KW at once

KW and KWh are not the same
A electro motor uses KWh and generates KW

The limit of deployment of in terms of time is unlimited...you only need the Mj for it ...and h can make and send as much as you can


The k uses Mj/KWh and gives in return KW/BHP to crank

according to AMG PETRONAS MOTORSPORT PU106C HYBRID specification (already posted) MGU-K max energy deployment per lap 4MJ (33.33 seconds full power).

[aleks_ader]

I apologize for offtopic question:
Can someone give a link to the rule that mandates usage of spare engines?
Is it explicitely written when "old" engines can be used ?

No! They could swap old part as long they want. And as long they dont broke parc ferme rules of course.

[Big Tea]

Exactly what I was thinking, maybe we are looking at the wrong area when we should be looking at the bargeboards.... Just a guess and ot from the engine thread

I remember somebody talking about bargeboards with a fluidic design on the McLaren being debuted this year

I forget which team it was, but they hid a part of the car and everyone was looking at all different angles to find the change. What they didn’t know was that the change was at the other end of the car, in plain sight, going unnoticed.

Lotus. They made a show of hiding the gearbox and no one noticed the tunnel.
Far to many cameras today I think.

I did start thinking of that, but it is not just Ferrari Ferrari improved, its all the Ferrari engine cars.

Having just said the above, I wonder if the side panel 'just happened' to fly off the Alfa so it could be photographed because it was the last one of that type

I am sure misdirection takes place, but I am (half) kidding here.

[godlameroso]

Some people on here seems to not being able to understand the difference in design and scope between a normal run of the mill/off the shelve turbocharger as used on a road going engine and that of the formula one turbocharger design and scope of use. The normal turbocharger as found on a road going engine have the waste gate build-in into the scroll housing and when it opens is meant relieve the exhaust gasses pressure and so the exhaust gasses energy by bypassing a controlled amount to the scroll exhaust outlet. The turbocharger as used in formula one is totally different in scope and design, the waste gates are not part of or build into the exhaust scroll, they are separate, they are situated at the end of each of the exhaust manifold and before the exhaust scroll, when open they are meant to bypass exhaust gasses away from the scroll and directly into each of their own dedicated and separate exhaust pipes.

You act like none of us know that external wastegates are a thing, even run of the mill turbo kits on Honda Civics work better with external wastegates. I've sent enough down the track to know papi.

You still don’t understand or cannot differentiate or your ego want let you, between the design working scope of a normal road going turbocharger waste gate and that of a formula one.

Do they not function to control gases going to the turbine? Just the wastegate control is much faster and finer in F1 because the actuator isn't a cheap ass rubber diaphragm, but a state of the art hydraulic one.

Also why the antagonism, we are simply discussing turbos, my ego has nothing to do with this, it's not like you're stealing my woman or anything.

[henry]

Linebeer first research paper november 2013. at around the same time, a presentaion of work at matlab (vidio). secoond paper (faster, higher and greener) adition futuring SPA published april 2015. all this can be downloaded for free, papers in PDF. by visiting "McCabism: optimal control theory and FERRARI'S turbo-electric hybrid" and follow instructions as were to click to download, the McCabism report is initself a must read to fully understand what and how things undolded.

Thanks again. I already have the first 2 so I’d be grateful if you could simply cut and paste from your copy of the third the definition of “free load mode”.

While you’re at it could you possibly do me the favour of revisiting this post. viewtopic.php?f=4&t=18874&start=12660. It’s the excellent Japanese article translated for us by user Hino. Last time you looked at it it was in connection with ERS. This time I’d like you to look at the pictures showing the wastegate(s). Usefully there is a caption next to one of the images of the 2016 motor labelled “wastegates”.

I hope you will see in that image that the wastegates are directly connected to the scroll housing of the turbine.

Thanks

between the end of the manifold and the scroll housing, that's before the scroll housing, waste gates that are build-in into the scroll housing vents/relieve exhaust pressure inside the scroll housing itself and direct the exhaust gasses to the outlet of the scroll housing, that design will not require a waste gate dedicated exhaust pipe.

So what’s going on with the 2015 Honda? It vents through the housing. No external pipes to the tailpipe. Did Honda not get the message?

[apexcontrol]

There no 4Mj max per lap saviour stivala. Plz go look and see the difference between KW and KWh

There is no 33 sec limit and there is no Mj limit h to k.

120kw is not the limit how long you may generate 161bhp. Its the max limit of horsepower given at any time to the crank.


H generates as much KWh/Mj as you can do no limit. The k uses KWh/Mj from the H as much as it likes no limit. But the K may not make more the 120KW at once

KW and KWh are not the same
A electro motor uses KWh and generates KW

The limit of deployment of in terms of time is unlimited...you only need the Mj for it ...and h can make and send as much as you can


The k uses Mj/KWh and gives in return KW/BHP to crank

according to AMG PETRONAS MOTORSPORT PU106C HYBRID specification (already posted) MGU-K max energy deployment per lap 4MJ (33.33 seconds full power).

yeah i dont think so mate
https://www.mercedesamgf1.com/en/merced ... uty-cycle/

Over a single lap, the maximum amount of energy that may be deployed from the Energy Store to the rear wheels is 4MJ – which provides an additional 161 hp for approximately 33 seconds per lap.

From the ES yess but from the H no !!

[apexcontrol]

and if you where correct, then all talk about mgu k is just meaningless because they all can get that 4Mj
and then ferrari is properly cheating the hell out of it, the amount of gain from ferrari will never come from the engine.
that just ridicules in multiple ways

mid season without a PU change they find 4 tenth in straight line speed. ?????? no way with out cheating or using more then 4 Mj.

[saviour stivala]

There no 4Mj max per lap saviour stivala. Plz go look and see the difference between KW and KWh

There is no 33 sec limit and there is no Mj limit h to k.

120kw is not the limit how long you may generate 161bhp. Its the max limit of horsepower given at any time to the crank.


H generates as much KWh/Mj as you can do no limit. The k uses KWh/Mj from the H as much as it likes no limit. But the K may not make more the 120KW at once

KW and KWh are not the same
A electro motor uses KWh and generates KW

The limit of deployment of in terms of time is unlimited...you only need the Mj for it ...and h can make and send as much as you can


The k uses Mj/KWh and gives in return KW/BHP to crank

according to AMG PETRONAS MOTORSPORT PU106C HYBRID specification (already posted) MGU-K max energy deployment per lap 4MJ (33.33 seconds full power).

yeah i dont think so mate
https://www.mercedesamgf1.com/en/merced ... uty-cycle/

Over a single lap, the maximum amount of energy that may be deployed from the Energy Store to the rear wheels is 4MJ – which provides an additional 161 hp for approximately 33 seconds per lap.

From the ES yess but from the H no !!

I qouted the AMG PETRONS MOTORSPORT PU106C specification which says 4MJ per lap (33.33 seconds full power). you qouting anything other or contrary to that is totally irrelevant to me.

[BrunoH]

maybe they are dumping all the electrical in the main straights and not using it on the last section

[saviour stivala]

Thanks again. I already have the first 2 so I’d be grateful if you could simply cut and paste from your copy of the third the definition of “free load mode”.

While you’re at it could you possibly do me the favour of revisiting this post. viewtopic.php?f=4&t=18874&start=12660. It’s the excellent Japanese article translated for us by user Hino. Last time you looked at it it was in connection with ERS. This time I’d like you to look at the pictures showing the wastegate(s). Usefully there is a caption next to one of the images of the 2016 motor labelled “wastegates”.

I hope you will see in that image that the wastegates are directly connected to the scroll housing of the turbine.

Thanks

between the end of the manifold and the scroll housing, that's before the scroll housing, waste gates that are build-in into the scroll housing vents/relieve exhaust pressure inside the scroll housing itself and direct the exhaust gasses to the outlet of the scroll housing, that design will not require a waste gate dedicated exhaust pipe.

So what’s going on with the 2015 Honda? It vents through the housing. No external pipes to the tailpipe. Did Honda not get the message?

according to the rules waste gate/s need have it's own dedicated exhaust pipe which means it is against the rules to vent/bypass waste gates exhaust gasses through the scroll housing.

[PhillipM]

I qouted the AMG PETRONS MOTORSPORT PU106C specification which says 4MJ per lap (33.33 seconds full power). you qouting anything other or contrary to that is totally irrelevant to me.

Even when it's the exact same source that contradicts yours, which tells you the reliability of the PR fluff on a website you're trying to use in your arguement is probably somewhat questionable?

[bjpower]

Very few teams have ever cheated in f1. They have found loop holes or different interpretations to the rules.
The only 2 I can think of is Honda useing fule as balist and that team that used add lead shot into the fule for the last stint to be the correct weight.
Why every time do people bang on about cheating . It's part of the sport. If fearri is deploying 100mj per lap it is because they have found a loop hole not because they are cheating.

[saviour stivala]

You act like none of us know that external wastegates are a thing, even run of the mill turbo kits on Honda Civics work better with external wastegates. I've sent enough down the track to know papi.

You still don’t understand or cannot differentiate or your ego want let you, between the design working scope of a normal road going turbocharger waste gate and that of a formula one.

Do they not function to control gases going to the turbine? Just the wastegate control is much faster and finer in F1 because the actuator isn't a cheap ass rubber diaphragm, but a state of the art hydraulic one.

Also why the antagonism, we are simply discussing turbos, my ego has nothing to do with this, it's not like you're stealing my woman or anything.

yes they do function to control "boost pressure" by relieving exhaust gases pressure and volum in the turbine scroll housing, the formula one waste gates also functions to bypass the exhaust gasses from the turbine scroll housing to eleminate back pressure for maximum output fro the ICE when ran in electric supercharging mode with waste gates open. and the trigerring is electronic while the hydraulic is the actuation.