Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

All that has to do with the power train, gearbox, clutch, fuels and lubricants, etc. Generally the mechanical side of Formula One.
Polite
0
Joined: Tue Oct 30, 2018 9:36 am

Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by Polite » Tue Sep 17, 2019 8:04 pm

For me, only better efficiency: best ERS of the grid and best software. They harvest more and deploy more at the beginning of the straits

ENGINE TUNER
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Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2016 5:07 pm

Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by ENGINE TUNER » Tue Sep 17, 2019 8:39 pm

Polite wrote:
Tue Sep 17, 2019 8:04 pm
For me, only better efficiency: best ERS of the grid and best software. They harvest more and deploy more at the beginning of the straits
In order to deploy more at the beginning of the straights they have to also have superior traction do they not?
Last edited by ENGINE TUNER on Tue Sep 17, 2019 11:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Brake Horse Power
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Joined: Wed Oct 25, 2017 8:36 pm

Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by Brake Horse Power » Tue Sep 17, 2019 8:55 pm

I am wondering would it be possible that they use MGU-H for mechanical propulsion? It would be quite a complex arrangement..

A mechanical link (can be read as gears) to the rest of the engine isn't allowed. But suppose you add an extra motorgenerator on the MGU-H shaft which you than connect mechanical to the ICE? Or is it a bit far fetched..

ENGINE TUNER
9
Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2016 5:07 pm

Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by ENGINE TUNER » Tue Sep 17, 2019 8:56 pm

dans79 wrote:
Tue Sep 17, 2019 7:38 pm
ENGINE TUNER wrote:
Tue Sep 17, 2019 7:24 pm


"Better, more efficient combustion" is at odds with the reports that Ferrari are burning 5 to 10kg more fuel per race then Merc(even while Ferrari carry less drag). It is quite possible that they have decided to keep the excess fuel mass for more power. Interesting tactics😉
It will probably be something they change for next year, as the low drag high fuel/power philosophy hasn't served them very well this year.
Fastest in Bahrain, Baku, Canada, Austria, Spa and Monza. The car is better than their season would suggest. But I agree that they will probably change quite a bit regarding their overall aero philosophy. The 2018 aero regs seem to have worked out far different than most of the grid has anticipated.

gruntguru
431
Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2009 6:43 am

Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by gruntguru » Tue Sep 17, 2019 10:09 pm

ENGINE TUNER wrote:
Tue Sep 17, 2019 7:24 pm
NL_Fer wrote:
Tue Sep 17, 2019 7:17 pm
ENGINE TUNER wrote:
Tue Sep 17, 2019 6:48 pm
Could Ferrari be opening up the wastegates early in the acceleration phase during the race as is reportedly done in the "qually" mode for a little extra low end power?

Brundle often mentions a peculiar sound when the Ferrari passes him as he travels around the track during practice sessions.
It could be done, even one or two seconds would give some extra boost at the start of a straight. It a cost of more harvesting and fuel consumption.

But i believe there is no trickery. Just better, more efficiënt combustion and more ERS harvesting.
"Better, more efficient combustion" is at odds with the reports that Ferrari are burning 5 to 10kg more fuel per race then Merc(even while Ferrari carry less drag). It is quite possible that they have decided to keep the excess fuel mass for more power. Interesting tactics😉
So the efficiency of the Ferrari and Mercedes is probably similar but Ferrari have found a way to use more fuel. Probably they are able to do more harvesting - converting fuel to ES energy. They would then be able to use electric supercharger mode more often.
je suis charlie

dans79
197
Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2013 6:33 pm
Location: USA

Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by dans79 » Tue Sep 17, 2019 10:28 pm

gruntguru wrote:
Tue Sep 17, 2019 10:09 pm
So the efficiency of the Ferrari and Mercedes is probably similar but Ferrari have found a way to use more fuel. Probably they are able to do more harvesting - converting fuel to ES energy. They would then be able to use electric supercharger mode more often.
I don't think this is the case, there must be something more. A year later, and we don't see any hints of this form the other manufactures.

ENGINE TUNER
9
Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2016 5:07 pm

Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by ENGINE TUNER » Tue Sep 17, 2019 11:24 pm

gruntguru wrote:
Tue Sep 17, 2019 10:09 pm
So the efficiency of the Ferrari and Mercedes is probably similar but Ferrari have found a way to use more fuel. Probably they are able to do more harvesting - converting fuel to ES energy. They would then be able to use electric supercharger mode more often.
Is there not a regulation that prohibits harvesting(thru the mguk) while ON throttle?

So are they dumping some fuel in during the exhaust phase to to feed the turbine more in order to harvest more off the mguh? Harvesting more from the mguh increases s.o.c. which allows them to run in electric supercharger mode (qually mode) with the wastegates open which allows more power from the ice as well.

Seems plausible.

A quick question, why do you think that efficiency of Merc and Ferrari are similar?

gruntguru
431
Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2009 6:43 am

Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by gruntguru » Wed Sep 18, 2019 7:17 am

Simply adding the two claims - Ferrari has a race power advantage - and they are using more fuel.
je suis charlie

Tommy Cookers
512
Joined: Fri Feb 17, 2012 3:55 pm

Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by Tommy Cookers » Wed Sep 18, 2019 9:05 am

ENGINE TUNER wrote:
Tue Sep 17, 2019 11:24 pm
Is there not a regulation that prohibits harvesting(thru the mguk) while ON throttle?
no there is not
(unless such has been introduced recently)

we have seen one manufacturer's telemetry showing such harvesting

LM10
47
Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2018 11:07 pm

Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by LM10 » Wed Sep 18, 2019 9:06 am

Ferrari’s power advantage is more significant in quali mode. I don’t think that “burning more fuel” is the explanation of that. Otherwise other teams would have done the same with their PU already.

The answer to the question might be going in the direction of one of the explanations here, but only to some extent. Some of the best engineers in the world, which are present in the grid, still don’t know what Ferrari is doing OR they are not able to implement it (yet).

saviour stivala
-13
Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2018 11:54 am

Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by saviour stivala » Wed Sep 18, 2019 9:18 am

Tommy Cookers wrote:
Wed Sep 18, 2019 9:05 am
ENGINE TUNER wrote:
Tue Sep 17, 2019 11:24 pm
Is there not a regulation that prohibits harvesting(thru the mguk) while ON throttle?
no there is not
(unless such has been introduced recently)

The harvesting by the K while under power/throttle telemetry wasn’t shown by the manufacturer but by a LOCAL to that manufacturer F1 site/magazine.
Harvesting by the K while under power/throttle have been practiced by many by using the brake pedal while under power/throttle.
Otherwise it is not possible to harvest by the K if the brake pedal is not used.

we have seen one manufacturer's telemetry showing such harvesting
'

djones
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Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2005 2:01 pm

Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by djones » Wed Sep 18, 2019 9:37 am

Are we actually sure its engine power?

I mean.... could movable aero not cause the same top speed etc.

LM10
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Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2018 11:07 pm

Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by LM10 » Wed Sep 18, 2019 10:39 am

djones wrote:
Wed Sep 18, 2019 9:37 am
Are we actually sure its engine power?

I mean.... could movable aero not cause the same top speed etc.
It's not the top speed alone. The Ferrari is accelerating faster than any other car out there and it's evident in non-traction-limited speeds.

What kind of movable aero part do you think of? That would be illegal.

Last season and in the beginning of this season you were sure of Ferrari using/having used illegal tricks to get more power out of their PU and now it's another illegal trick? :roll:

djones
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Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2005 2:01 pm

Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by djones » Wed Sep 18, 2019 10:56 am

It was just an idea to cover off if everybody is getting caught up on the engine.

I think they are doing something illegal with the PU personally. But that's purely opinion.

Not that it matters in terms of the championship as they are going to lose both significantly. I think if they were ahead or close there would be a lot more uproar from people like Mercedes.

LM10
47
Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2018 11:07 pm

Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by LM10 » Wed Sep 18, 2019 11:18 am

djones wrote:
Wed Sep 18, 2019 10:56 am
It was just an idea to cover off if everybody is getting caught up on the engine.

I think they are doing something illegal with the PU personally. But that's purely opinion.

Not that it matters in terms of the championship as they are going to lose both significantly. I think if they were ahead or close there would be a lot more uproar from people like Mercedes.
Remember the uproar and the number of investigations last season?