Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

All that has to do with the power train, gearbox, clutch, fuels and lubricants, etc. Generally the mechanical side of Formula One.
siskue2005
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by siskue2005 » Sun Nov 17, 2019 1:14 pm

LM10 wrote:
Sun Nov 17, 2019 1:10 pm
siskue2005 wrote:
Sun Nov 17, 2019 6:08 am
LM10 wrote:
Sun Nov 17, 2019 12:06 am
Only ICE was changed to a fresh one on Leclerc’s PU btw. Would we see a power deficit on worn out parts other than ICE?
And yet they were so fast (nearly 6 tenths in sector 1 alone and 4 tenths in sector 3) in Belgium with their old and worn out spec 2 engine!
https://serving.photos.photobox.com/643 ... 75ef24.jpg
Funny that you're not mentioning S2 where downforce is required and the Ferraris clearly were slower than the Mercedes. In Singapore Ferrari got upgrades which gave them more downforce and in Austin and Brazil they went even further and used highest possible downforce level on their rear wing. It makes absolutely no sense just comparing fast sectors without taking downforce sectors into consideration.
Mercedes has been wiping the floor with Ferrari downforce wise over the majority of the season. Now, what we see is a Ferrari which has been as fast as Mercedes in twisty S2 in Austin and even faster (Leclerc) than Mercedes in twisty S2 in Brazil. This in addition to still being fastest on the straights even though with such a parachute of a rear wing. I don't need to explain that there is no other part producing more drag than the rear wing, right?
Please read the bolded parts, You asked a question and i answered it! thank you
Last edited by siskue2005 on Sun Nov 17, 2019 3:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Polite
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by Polite » Sun Nov 17, 2019 2:00 pm

siskue2005 wrote:
Sun Nov 17, 2019 5:27 am

so why were they 2 tenths faster in the straight in singapore gp in qualifying after the aero upgrade in singapore?? BUT they are slower now even with or without singapore update??
for the same reason they are the fastest in t3 in brazil today for 3/10, after the Tds and the aero upgrade: best PU and less drag of all the field.
without the aero upgrade in brazil i think they could be 1`` faster in t3 but also way slower in t2, and out of race pace for poor tire management. Remeber hungary m8...

The aero upgrade (more df and drag but also better tire temps..) explains less speed (but they are still the fastest)

u are speculating.. and u could also say that the Mercs pu is the more afted by the tds because they look slower in t3 to honda now ;P 8) :lol: :lol:

turbof1
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by turbof1 » Sun Nov 17, 2019 9:40 pm

Guys,

It is getting off topic. Yes, to get an idea of engine power we do need to factor in downforce and associated drag, butn that it is becoming more and more a discussion on its own rather than about the power unit. Let us bring it back to the latter please.
#AeroFrodo

saviour stivala
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by saviour stivala » Sun Nov 17, 2019 9:55 pm

The problem is how do you do that without factoring in downforce and drag?.

One and Only
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by One and Only » Sun Nov 17, 2019 9:57 pm

How would burning let's say 5% more fuel per race affect engine life? I guess it would affect it, but enough to force driver to use one engine more than planned (hint Leclerc)?
"Don't you know there ain't no devil, it's just God when he's drunk." Tom Waits

turbof1
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by turbof1 » Sun Nov 17, 2019 9:58 pm

saviour stivala wrote:
Sun Nov 17, 2019 9:55 pm
The problem is how do you do that without factoring in downforce and drag?.
Dear Saviour Stivala, we'll never get out of this loop this way :lol: .

I suggest we condense things down to graphs like the acceleration curve from a few pages ago.
#AeroFrodo

Polite
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by Polite » Mon Nov 18, 2019 9:02 am

One and Only wrote:
Sun Nov 17, 2019 9:57 pm
How would burning let's say 5% more fuel per race affect engine life? I guess it would affect it, but enough to force driver to use one engine more than planned (hint Leclerc)?
more fuel is good also to prevent ice problems: more fuel is good for the reliability imo... less heat, less knockback... the only way more fuel can affect negatively is when u rise the turbo pressure, but this way the reliability will be affected by the rised pressure nor by the fuel, which would only be needed to increase turbo pressure.

@Turbo, sorry for the aero/drag releted comments but are main factors for the speed equation for Ferrari before Singapore and after Singapore.

zibby43
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by zibby43 » Wed Nov 20, 2019 9:22 am



Ferrari petrol systems confiscated

The FIA is serious. It has confiscated part of the petrol system from three cars in Brazil. Among them was Ferrari. The parts are to be examined in peace. This will finally stop the discussions about possible tricks.

Ferrari left Interlagos with his head lowered. If the two own drivers drive each other into the car, this is for each team the biggest accident to be assumed. Until the disastrous collision, the Ferrari were on a podium course. Although they had no chance of winning, they were much better than in Austin.

Team boss Mattia Binotto saw a parallel to Mexico, where they only had the third-fastest car in the race, but at least not as hopelessly as at the GP USA. However, the competition saw Ferrari's performance as further proof that something had changed since the FIA's technical directives on possible tricks on the engine started to circulate.

Ferrari denies that of course. The red cars showed again with best times in the power sectors 1 and 3 that they are the strongest force in the field on the straights, but the lead was not as drastic as before two races. Compared to Red Bull Honda the advantage in the full throttle passages shrank to 0.15 seconds, compared to Mercedes to double.

Binotto explained this as in Austin with the chosen car set-up. Therefore the loss of time in the curves was less than usual, which was to the detriment of the advantage on the straights.


No protest, but nevertheless investigation

Red Bull had declared in Brazil that they would not submit a protest against Ferrari. No matter what happens. That was now a matter for Mercedes. "They know better than we do anyway," mocked sport boss Helmut Marko. There was no reason to protest against the world champion. First of all, you achieved what you wanted.

Nevertheless, the topic is not off the table. Now the FIA is suddenly stepping on the gas. After the association had long taken the position that the doubters had to protest if they wished to have the red cars examined, they now apparently want to clear up the rumours by themselves. They only poison the climate in the paddock.

That is why FIA commissioners in Brazil have apparently confiscated parts of the petrol system for three cars. A Ferrari, a Ferrari customer team and a car from a non-Ferrari team. So you can make comparisons.


FIA wants clarification

The disassembled parts were fuel lines located between the flow sensor and the engine. In this area, the request submitted by Red Bull suspected cheating, with the result that more fuel was injected than allowed by the regulations.

The test will be carried out in FIA laboratories and will probably take a few days. If we don't hear anything until the season finale in Abu Dhabi, we have to assume that everything was fine.

Phil
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by Phil » Wed Nov 20, 2019 10:23 am

The political ramifications would be huge if they do find something, to the point, i’m doubtful they would publicly announce anything. I’m really surprised about this...
Not for nothing, Rosberg's Championship is the only thing that lends credibility to Hamilton's recent success. Otherwise, he'd just be the guy who's had the best car. — bhall II
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KeiKo403
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by KeiKo403 » Wed Nov 20, 2019 10:34 am

How unprecedented is this from the FIA?

Normally I thought this would only happen if a team filed a protest.It seems the FIA had continuously been saying the Ferrari PU was legal and now all of a sudden it's confiscated parts from Ferrari PU's for examination.

The disassembled parts were fuel lines located between the flow sensor and the engine. In this area, the request submitted by Red Bull suspected cheating, with the result that more fuel was injected than allowed by the regulations.
What could the FIA expect to find in fuel flow lines which would lead to proving or disproving what RBR suspected?

saviour stivala
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by saviour stivala » Wed Nov 20, 2019 10:53 am

“Apparently confiscated parts of the petrol system”. “The disassembled parts were fuel lines located between the fuel flow sensor and the engine”.
2019 FIA technical regulations, Fuel system 5:10:- “only approved parts may be used and the list of parts approved by the FIA, and the approved procedure may be found in appendix to technical regulations”.
Article/s:- 1:22. 5.3.7. 5.4.1. 5.4.2 included. 5:22 excluded.
PU mounted fuel system components (eg: high pressure fuel hose, fuel rail, fuel injectors, accumulators).
Most of the on car ‘HARDWARE’ fuel system parts have to be approved by the FIA. Including the SECU ‘SOFTWARE’ managing the fuel system.

LM10
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by LM10 » Wed Nov 20, 2019 11:40 am

I thought that the FIA needed an official protest to start detailed investigations?

aran.vtec
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by aran.vtec » Wed Nov 20, 2019 11:48 am

isn't this all too late? As we can clearly see whatever advantage they had is now gone/removed

FIA will investigate and find nothing wrong, then Ferrari will be free to reuse whatever trick they had...

Just_a_fan
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by Just_a_fan » Wed Nov 20, 2019 11:49 am

Red Bull had declared in Brazil that they would not submit a protest against Ferrari. No matter what happens. That was now a matter for Mercedes. "They know better than we do anyway," mocked sport boss Helmut Marko.
and
A Ferrari, a Ferrari customer team and a car from a non-Ferrari team.
Is the non-Ferrari team a Mercedes team (or even Mercedes themselves)? Is that what Marko was hinting at?

Or is the non-Ferrari team being used as a control to see where the differences lay?

If there is naughtiness going on in the Red and Silver teams, Red Bull and Max might both end up being champions this year after all...
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Wouter
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by Wouter » Wed Nov 20, 2019 11:59 am

Just_a_fan wrote:
Wed Nov 20, 2019 11:49 am
Or is the non-Ferrari team being used as a control to see where the differences lay?

According to the original article on AMuS it is.