Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

All that has to do with the power train, gearbox, clutch, fuels and lubricants, etc. Generally the mechanical side of Formula One.
gruntguru
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Including this most-telling statement in the same report
Indeed, it is understood that a post race check of the fuel remaining in the car and how much had been used in the race tallied with Ferrari's original declaration.
je suis charlie

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subcritical71
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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saviour stivala wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 9:44 pm
According to FIA documents, a number of other fuel checks were carried out on ‘all cars’ afterwards too – these covered meter calibration checksums, instantaneous fuel mass flow, fuel temperature and total fuel mass consumed by ‘all cars’. The FIA confirmed that ‘all cars’ were in conformity of all regulations.
The FIA confirmed that ‘all cars’ were in conformity of all regulations that were checked (Checked items are documented in the race scrutineering report). They cannot confirm something that was not checked.

zibby43
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Another story emerging about the Ferrari fuel saga:

https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/opin ... ontroversy

"To exploit an illegally high fuel flow in giving you more power, you'd need more than 100kg in the tank. Otherwise you'd run out of fuel. So you put in 105. But you say you've only put 100 in. So when it's weighed afterwards, it's consistent with you having put 100 in. Even though you've used 105."

"If a team was to make use of an ability to run an illegally high fuel flow, it could burn off any difference between declared and actual."

"[The FIA] measures flow in real time. Flow is an instantaneous measure. That 100kg/hour is just a way of expressing the maximum permitted flow rather than how it is measured. It’s measured at incredibly high frequency – 2000Hz – all the time."


How can the FIA know if Ferrari has put more fuel than reported if the fuel flow sensors have been tampered with? They would have to physically check the car.

Which, in Abu Dhabi they finally did. They conducted a surprise check on Leclerc's car. LEC's fuel load was 4.88kg under-reported.

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Bill
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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They was a rumor at the beginning of the year that Ferrari pu was fuel inefficient perhaps they are trying to compensate.

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MtthsMlw
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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zibby43 wrote:
Thu Dec 05, 2019 6:39 am
Another story emerging about the Ferrari fuel saga:

https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/opin ... ontroversy

"To exploit an illegally high fuel flow in giving you more power, you'd need more than 100kg in the tank. Otherwise you'd run out of fuel. So you put in 105. But you say you've only put 100 in. So when it's weighed afterwards, it's consistent with you having put 100 in. Even though you've used 105."

"If a team was to make use of an ability to run an illegally high fuel flow, it could burn off any difference between declared and actual."

"[The FIA] measures flow in real time. Flow is an instantaneous measure. That 100kg/hour is just a way of expressing the maximum permitted flow rather than how it is measured. It’s measured at incredibly high frequency – 2000Hz – all the time."


How can the FIA know if Ferrari has put more fuel than reported if the fuel flow sensors have been tampered with? They would have to physically check the car.

Which, in Abu Dhabi they finally did. They conducted a surprise check on Leclerc's car. LEC's fuel load was 4.88kg under-reported.

https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/site ... i_race.jpg
Binotto said that was like the tenth time this year they were checked like that.

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jumpingfish
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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This story is getting more and more complicated. If we assume that Ferrari cheated the fuel sensor from the preseason tests to the Abu Dhabi Grand Prix, despite the technical directives, did they spit on the FIA and loaded more fuel and burned it? If the steward/Joe Bauer's reports didn't say that the fuel load exceeded the norm or that there was extra fuel left after the race, then the Ferrari cheated the sensor or actually made a mistake in the records?

For example: 105 kg of fuel on paper, but ~110 kg in the tank. After the race the fuel was measured again, did it correspond to the sensor readings of 105kg or 110kg? Where did the extra power from 5kg go? Was Leclerc's speed on the straight lines significantly better than the others? Earlier it was said that the advantage of the Ferrari engine is manifested in the qualifications. Why, if we assume cheats in all the Grand Prix, do people notice a drop in performance in straight lines even in Q3 Abu Dhabi after a TDs?

If we say that after all the TDs, the Ferrari were scared and honest, why were they in Abu Dhabi faster than the total of about 0.55s on the lines? If they were afraid of the FIA, does that mean they couldn't knowingly load 5kg more fuel than they had stated, and it was just a mistake on paper?

Binotto said in an interview that the FIA had checked them about 10 times and everything was fine. 10 times both cars or 5 times Leclerc, 5 times Vettel? If everything was okay 10 times in measurements before and after the race, does that mean the Ferraris were lucky enough to guess when the test would be? Was it noticed in 10 Grand Prix out of 21 that there was a significant drop in speed between partners #16 and #5 or competitors on the straight line?
So many inconsistencies...

zibby43
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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MtthsMlw wrote:
Thu Dec 05, 2019 8:17 am
zibby43 wrote:
Thu Dec 05, 2019 6:39 am
Another story emerging about the Ferrari fuel saga:

https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/opin ... ontroversy

"To exploit an illegally high fuel flow in giving you more power, you'd need more than 100kg in the tank. Otherwise you'd run out of fuel. So you put in 105. But you say you've only put 100 in. So when it's weighed afterwards, it's consistent with you having put 100 in. Even though you've used 105."

"If a team was to make use of an ability to run an illegally high fuel flow, it could burn off any difference between declared and actual."

"[The FIA] measures flow in real time. Flow is an instantaneous measure. That 100kg/hour is just a way of expressing the maximum permitted flow rather than how it is measured. It’s measured at incredibly high frequency – 2000Hz – all the time."


How can the FIA know if Ferrari has put more fuel than reported if the fuel flow sensors have been tampered with? They would have to physically check the car.

Which, in Abu Dhabi they finally did. They conducted a surprise check on Leclerc's car. LEC's fuel load was 4.88kg under-reported.

https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/site ... i_race.jpg
Binotto said that was like the tenth time this year they were checked like that.
He's had some weird quotes lately.

"The controversy over the declaration discrepancy came ahead of a race where both Leclerc and Sebastian Vettel were told to use fuel saving engine modes. But rather than this being linked to the FIA matter, Binotto claimed that the decision to not push the engine hard was made because of reliability concerns.

Asked by Motorsport.com why the team had spent much of the race in engine mode 4, Binotto said: 'We had an engine failure in Austin with Charles, and we know that in terms of mileage we could have been at risk.'"


Didn't Charles get a new engine in Brazil? How could there be mileage concerns lol?

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/ferr ... o/4606139/

Singabule
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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You only need to compensate in overtaking and defending, hence would be similar to qualy in peak performance. Why they cheat in report, they wnt to hide the qualy mode used in race off course. And is it Ferarri tagline the aero is for one who cant make good engine? In the outright power they beat merc fair but grey. Honda and RB do the confirmation to FIA similar to Dorna so that Duke cant get any advantage now.

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jumpingfish
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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zibby43 wrote:
Thu Dec 05, 2019 8:51 am
Asked by Motorsport.com why the team had spent much of the race in engine mode 4, Binotto said: 'We had an engine failure in Austin with Charles, and we know that in terms of mileage we could have been at risk.'"[/i]

Didn't Charles get a new engine in Brazil? How could there be mileage concerns lol?

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/ferr ... o/4606139/
He got only ICE, but MGU-h-k, Turbo, CE, ES were old.
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henry
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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gruntguru wrote:
Thu Dec 05, 2019 12:35 am
Including this most-telling statement in the same report
Indeed, it is understood that a post race check of the fuel remaining in the car and how much had been used in the race tallied with Ferrari's original declaration.
That can’t be true. It would mean the FFS overall consumption estimate did not match the physical measurements made by the FIA.

If that were the case the reasons for the FFS malfunction would need to be investigated.

The penalty administered was for misreporting not fiddling the FFS.
Fortune favours the prepared; she has no favourites and takes no sides.
Truth is confirmed by inspection and delay; falsehood by haste and uncertainty : Tacitus

saviour stivala
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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subcritical71 wrote:
Thu Dec 05, 2019 1:30 am
saviour stivala wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 9:44 pm
According to FIA documents, a number of other fuel checks were carried out on ‘all cars’ afterwards too – these covered meter calibration checksums, instantaneous fuel mass flow, fuel temperature and total fuel mass consumed by ‘all cars’. The FIA confirmed that ‘all cars’ were in conformity of all regulations.
The FIA confirmed that ‘all cars’ were in conformity of all regulations that were checked (Checked items are documented in the race scrutineering report). They cannot confirm something that was not checked.
"The FIA confirmed that 'all cars were in conformity of all regulations that were checked" Yes. checked items are documented. As per document 36 17:06 before the race and document 42 22:11 after the race. "FIA formula 1 world championship 2019 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix 28 November - 1 December 2019".

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IvailoStefanovBG
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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jumpingfish wrote:
Thu Dec 05, 2019 9:00 am
zibby43 wrote:
Thu Dec 05, 2019 8:51 am
Asked by Motorsport.com why the team had spent much of the race in engine mode 4, Binotto said: 'We had an engine failure in Austin with Charles, and we know that in terms of mileage we could have been at risk.'"[/i]

Didn't Charles get a new engine in Brazil? How could there be mileage concerns lol?

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/ferr ... o/4606139/
He got only ICE, but MGU-h-k, Turbo, CE, ES were old.
https://sun9-47.userapi.com/c855020/v85 ... oTVddA.jpg
Actually this makes things look even more weird. They had engine failure and replaced ICE. So if we think logical they had to replace the part which had failure and can not function any more and the part that is the cause of the failure. They know that there are two races left, they will have some grid penalty in Brazil and will not replace any other part that will be the cause of failure in COTA or will be on the edge of surviving last two races. Actually they had to be really stupid doing that and this is something that I personally do not believe......

flexcon
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Was it not Vettel that had to run in mode 4?

can someone clarify that leclerc also ran in mode 4?

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jumpingfish
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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flexcon wrote:
Thu Dec 05, 2019 11:59 am
Was it not Vettel that had to run in mode 4?

can someone clarify that leclerc also ran in mode 4?
Yes, Leclerc also was on mode 4 at 17 lap. Source on Italian: https://www.f1analisitecnica.com/2019/1 ... 2705078125
translated part on English:
Furthermore, in 17 they asked him (Leclerc) to switch to a more conservative ICE mapping (Engine 4) compared to the normally used Engine 1, probably to better control the consumption given the absence until then of Virtual or Safety Car.

saviour stivala
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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FERRARI car 16 was fully compliant on track as evidenced/confirmed by ‘after race checks of all cars’ by the FIA and as per their (FIA) ‘after race’ document. (The FIA confirmed that all cars were in conformity of the regulation) Either FERRARI documents presented to FIA were wrong or the FIA weighing/calculations were wrong – so they (FERRARI) paid a fine for it. Simple and enough.