Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

[gruntguru]

I'll stay with my opinion, that the whole block is not doable.

3D printing in steel or aluminium alloys is no problem, however conventional additive and subtractive techniques (eg casting and machining) are well developed and the raw materials relatively inexpensive. This is why you see 3D printing emphasis on exotic materials like titanium and nickel alloys.

The quote above should be attributed to oehrly.

Whoops sorry. Too late to edit.

[rgava]

Mainly, improved precision of the AM process, more variety of materials and combination of machining and AM in the same machine.

in the same machine? amazing. All the teams must be into this, i hope FIA/Liberty don't decide it's not dumb enough and ban it

You can see it here: https://en.dmgmori.com/products/machine ... -3d-hybrid

[izzy]

Mainly, improved precision of the AM process, more variety of materials and combination of machining and AM in the same machine.

in the same machine? amazing. All the teams must be into this, i hope FIA/Liberty don't decide it's not dumb enough and ban it

You can see it here: https://en.dmgmori.com/products/machine ... -3d-hybrid

Oh, awesome. This must be such a time to be a design engineer, and you can imagine things are pretty hot at Ferrari right now, with a full blown engineer in charge. I wonder if they're AM-ing their own radiators? Or hybrid AM. That'd be a huge gain potentially

[nzjrs]

in the same machine? amazing. All the teams must be into this, i hope FIA/Liberty don't decide it's not dumb enough and ban it

You can see it here: https://en.dmgmori.com/products/machine ... -3d-hybrid

Oh, awesome. This must be such a time to be a design engineer, and you can imagine things are pretty hot at Ferrari right now, with a full blown engineer in charge. I wonder if they're AM-ing their own radiators? Or hybrid AM. That'd be a huge gain potentially

Honestly, why are people so excited by AM?

The level of manufacturing detail on a modern F1 car is already astounding, but add a tiny 3d printed widget and the internet loses its ---.

[izzy]

Honestly, why are people so excited by AM?

The level of manufacturing detail on a modern F1 car is already astounding, but add a tiny 3d printed widget and the internet loses its ---.

it's because there's an unbelievable amount of scope with it, to do things better and make things better and be awesome, so that fans can be awed and inspired, which is the point of F1 afaic. In general it's good to be excited and alive, and not good to be trying to be bored and superior on the internet, when it might be something you are missing

[nzjrs]

Honestly, why are people so excited by AM?

The level of manufacturing detail on a modern F1 car is already astounding, but add a tiny 3d printed widget and the internet loses its ---.

it's because there's an unbelievable amount of scope with it, to do things better and make things better and be awesome, so that fans can be awed and inspired, which is the point of F1 afaic. In general it's good to be excited and alive, and not good to be trying to be bored and superior on the internet, when it might be something you are missing

You take my point the wrong way, the existing craftsmanship of the machinists is already astounding and should be appreciated. AM, all things considered, is a rather small contributor to the final piece of art.

[izzy]

You take my point the wrong way, the existing craftsmanship of the machinists is already astounding and should be appreciated. AM, all things considered, is a rather small contributor to the final piece of art.

craftmanship? Mattia will not be looking for any craftsmen to make art adjusting levers on a machine, that isn't even last century it's the one before that! Even with computer controlled machining they can only reach into places that are basically open, and with casting they can only design things they can fill and get the sand or whatever out of again, with one material at a time. With additive they can build any shape they like, change the density and the material as they go, have tiny coolant ways in or even porous, and then if they want to machine and polish it they can do that as well. It must give them a whole new way of approaching a design. I just wish they'd tell us more about it, but mystery is part of F1

[nzjrs]

You take my point the wrong way, the existing craftsmanship of the machinists is already astounding and should be appreciated. AM, all things considered, is a rather small contributor to the final piece of art.

craftmanship? Mattia will not be looking for any craftsmen to make art adjusting levers on a machine, that isn't even last century it's the one before that!

I have no idea what you are saying here.

Even with computer controlled machining they can only reach into places that are basically open, and with casting they can only design things they can fill and get the sand or whatever out of again, with one material at a time. With additive they can build any shape they like

Yes, this is the definition of AM. My point is, what percentage of parts on the car do you think can be constructed (only with AM) or improved (across all dimensions) by using AM. My guess is a very very very small percentage.

Certainly not as much as one would be led to believe based on the response to any suggestion that teams 'are using 3D printers'.

[izzy]

My point is, what percentage of parts on the car do you think can be constructed (only with AM) or improved (across all dimensions) by using AM. My guess is a very very very small percentage.

Certainly not as much as one would be led to believe based on the response to any suggestion that teams 'are using 3D printers'.

oh this is a novel way of looking at it. Yes, now you say, there are 2000 whatever parts in an F1 car and the engine block and heads are only 3, so that's like 0.015%

[Zynerji]

You can see it here: https://en.dmgmori.com/products/machine ... -3d-hybrid

Oh, awesome. This must be such a time to be a design engineer, and you can imagine things are pretty hot at Ferrari right now, with a full blown engineer in charge. I wonder if they're AM-ing their own radiators? Or hybrid AM. That'd be a huge gain potentially

Honestly, why are people so excited by AM?

The level of manufacturing detail on a modern F1 car is already astounding, but add a tiny 3d printed widget and the internet loses its ---.

F1 moving to additive manufacturing is the largest single step that the sport can take to increase their "Green" footprint.

There is far less waste to recycle (energy/labor/fees/environmental), it is faster in most cases, as well as far more energy efficient.

If you only use what you need, instead of throwing out what you don't need, you are the most efficient. Why wouldn't everyone be excited about this technology?

[nzjrs]

My point is, what percentage of parts on the car do you think can be constructed (only with AM) or improved (across all dimensions) by using AM. My guess is a very very very small percentage.

Certainly not as much as one would be led to believe based on the response to any suggestion that teams 'are using 3D printers'.

oh this is a novel way of looking at it. Yes, now you say, there are 2000 whatever parts in an F1 car and the engine block and heads are only 3, so that's like 0.015%

You could also measure it in terms of the number of parts touched by AM in their life, the total machine hours, or whatever other metric you fancy. Remember to be earnest with your choice of metric.

[nzjrs]

F1 moving to additive manufacturing is the largest single step that the sport can take to increase their "Green" footprint.

This is hyperbole, no?

[Zynerji]

F1 moving to additive manufacturing is the largest single step that the sport can take to increase their "Green" footprint.

This is hyperbole, no?

Efficiency is never hyperbolic.

[dans79]

additive manufacturing isn't green, and it isn't efficent.

It's pretty much the opposite of both, when you look at the entire process from producing the special raw materials needed, to the actual manufacturing process, to the additional finishing process needed in a lot of cases.

for example lets consider a piston produced using SLS, SLM, EBM, or maybe BJ.

1. Produce the metals you want to use.
2. reduce the metals to fine accurately sized particles.
3. produce the piston with the additive manufacturing method of choice.
4. post process the piston if needed for the process of choice.
5. machine the piston so that the critical dimensions are withing tolerance.

steps, 2,3,& 4 are on top of what you would need for traditional manufacturing. Not to mention all but a few of the additive manufacturing processes are very slow any energy hogs.

The real benefit of additive manufacturing, is that you can produce things not possible with traditional methods. for example a piston that is mostly hollow with a honeycomb support matrix inside.

[Zynerji]

additive manufacturing isn't green, and it isn't efficent.

It's pretty much the opposite of both, when you look at the entire process from producing the special raw materials needed, to the actual manufacturing process, to the additional finishing process needed in a lot of cases.

for example lets consider a piston produced using SLS, SLM, EBM, or maybe BJ.

1. Produce the metals you want to use.
2. reduce the metals to fine accurately sized particles.
3. produce the piston with the additive manufacturing method of choice.
4. post process the piston if needed for the process of choice.
5. machine the piston so that the critical dimensions are withing tolerance.

steps, 2,3,& 4 are on top of what you would need for traditional manufacturing. Not to mention all but a few of the additive manufacturing processes are very slow any energy hogs.

The real benefit of additive manufacturing, is that you can produce things not possible with traditional methods. for example a piston that is mostly hollow with a honeycomb support matrix inside.

I'd love to see the electric usage between a SLS printer, and the electric arc furnace used in casting...

Precursors have an open market to drive down cost over time. You do not have the sheer volume of waste to recycle, and its distributed manufacturing, so your entire supply chain uses less fuel.

I've been working on a printer for a while now that uses standard stock coils of wire for the feed stock. That raw material isnt anything special, but the GVD printer is.