Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

All that has to do with the power train, gearbox, clutch, fuels and lubricants, etc. Generally the mechanical side of Formula One.
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MtthsMlw
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Blackout wrote:
Thu Jul 23, 2020 2:46 pm
Is the Ferrari compressor inside the V? The more I look at Ferrari PU pics, the more I think so. The turbine seems to be placed extremely close to the engine, similar to Mercedes... So where is the compressor? it's probably inside the V... it's air supply certainly is...
After a long look at this pic I think compressor in the V is likely. If the exhaust manifold connects to where I think it does - it has to.
Image
2019 PU

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subcritical71
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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RZS10 wrote:
Thu Jul 23, 2020 10:03 pm
It was a meeting between Elkann and Källenius but who cares about facts ...
Which is why I put the IIRC in my post, I wasn’t 100% sure on it. Thanks for the correction, my recollection was off.

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Blackout
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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MtthsMlw wrote:
Thu Jul 23, 2020 10:26 pm
Blackout wrote:
Thu Jul 23, 2020 2:46 pm
Is the Ferrari compressor inside the V? The more I look at Ferrari PU pics, the more I think so. The turbine seems to be placed extremely close to the engine, similar to Mercedes... So where is the compressor? it's probably inside the V... it's air supply certainly is...
After a long look at this pic I think compressor in the V is likely. If the exhaust manifold connects to where I think it does - it has to.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EA834VsXUAAWQvJ.jpg:large
2019 PU
This one too is very telling . (I have another rear view pic of an older Ferrari PU put cant find it)

Image
f1i.auto-moto.com

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MtthsMlw
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Blackout wrote:
Fri Jul 24, 2020 11:23 am
MtthsMlw wrote:
Thu Jul 23, 2020 10:26 pm
Blackout wrote:
Thu Jul 23, 2020 2:46 pm
Is the Ferrari compressor inside the V? The more I look at Ferrari PU pics, the more I think so. The turbine seems to be placed extremely close to the engine, similar to Mercedes... So where is the compressor? it's probably inside the V... it's air supply certainly is...
After a long look at this pic I think compressor in the V is likely. If the exhaust manifold connects to where I think it does - it has to.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EA834VsXUAAWQvJ.jpg:large
2019 PU
This one too is very telling . (I have another rear view pic of an older Ferrari PU put cant find it)

https://sf.viepratique.fr/wp-content/up ... eurs_2.jpg
f1i.auto-moto.com
Huh, haven't seen that pic before. I think if you manage to get the compressor inside the V the packaging advantage the split turbo design brings is almost negligible.

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etusch
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Blackout wrote:
Fri Jul 24, 2020 11:23 am
MtthsMlw wrote:
Thu Jul 23, 2020 10:26 pm
Blackout wrote:
Thu Jul 23, 2020 2:46 pm
Is the Ferrari compressor inside the V? The more I look at Ferrari PU pics, the more I think so. The turbine seems to be placed extremely close to the engine, similar to Mercedes... So where is the compressor? it's probably inside the V... it's air supply certainly is...
After a long look at this pic I think compressor in the V is likely. If the exhaust manifold connects to where I think it does - it has to.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EA834VsXUAAWQvJ.jpg:large
2019 PU
This one too is very telling . (I have another rear view pic of an older Ferrari PU put cant find it)

https://sf.viepratique.fr/wp-content/up ... eurs_2.jpg
f1i.auto-moto.com
I wonder that if keeping exhaust gas warmer will make ers more efficient, why they don't put exhuast inside of v and intake to outside? I am sure there are reasons for keeping this layout but what are them is what I want to learn.

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Mudflap
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Rules don't allow hot vees
nah pop no style

V12-POWER
V12-POWER
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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SiLo wrote:
Thu Jul 23, 2020 11:18 am
So this article is quite interesting regarding the FIA deal and the Ferrari engine:

https://www.funoanalisitecnica.com/2020 ... refresh_ce

The best summary I could find (from Reddit):

1) Red Bull and Mercedes suspected faul play by Ferrari regarding the engine, but their clarifications asked from the FIA initially amounted to nothing.

2) A FIA-person, who was embedded at Ferrari found out the trick Ferrari was pulling off (bypassing the fuel flow sensor) and forwarded that information to either Mercedes (or Red Bull) who then asked the FIA for clarification, leading to the TD that nerfed Ferrari, and the FIA-Ferrari settlement.

3) To put that into context; the FIA can't issue technical clarifications of their own volition. A team needs to prompt the FIA, upon which they can issue a TD. This FIA-person therefore handed over this info about the Ferrari engine to Mercedes.. allegedly, which eventually led to the TD.

4) Ferrari felt betrayed by this FIA-person (who in their eyes illegally shared Ferrari IP with others) and feel that Toto's wrath was in retaliation to Ferrari vetoeing him as Chase Carey's successor as the head of Formula 1.

5) It is believed (by those in or close to Ferrari) that other (read: most likely Mercedes) engines still operate in a grey area, while Ferrari is now fielding the only truly legal engine.

If this is the wrong thread let me know and I can move it.
Makes total sense. I don't buy the "analyzed gps data" story, this just had to be something and someone from within the team breaking the NDAs or whatever they have.

Now they're all on a fine line, if things go south we might be up for another spygate kinda scandal. and it wont be good for the Mercs.

All it takes is the feeling of repent, let's see what happens in the coming months

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godlameroso
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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So they went back to Honda's 2015 design? Just do it, go split turbo and leave Renault as the only team with a rear mounted one.
The height of cultivation is really nothing special. It is merely simplicity; the ability to express the utmost with the minimum. Mr.Lee

zibby43
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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RZS10 wrote:
Thu Jul 23, 2020 10:03 pm
It was a meeting between Elkann and Källenius but who cares about facts ...

there's also this quote from Wolff:

"We decided in Melbourne that for the start of the season, this additional controversy, plus corona, starting to get really bad in Italy, it was not the opportune moment. In this day and age of transparency, it's extremely important, and good governance is extremely important. The position that we are in is that we are monitoring the situation. We are not happy about last year. It has stretched all of us to a point to be competitive against Ferrari, where it was difficult to cope. Let's wait and see how the season starts and get going, and we will then re-assess for ourselves and probably with the other guys where it stands."
Bingo.

MachineCo.
MachineCo.
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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RZS10 wrote:
Thu Jul 23, 2020 10:03 pm
It was a meeting between Elkann and Källenius but who cares about facts ...

there's also this quote from Wolff:

"We decided in Melbourne that for the start of the season, this additional controversy, plus corona, starting to get really bad in Italy, it was not the opportune moment. In this day and age of transparency, it's extremely important, and good governance is extremely important. The position that we are in is that we are monitoring the situation. We are not happy about last year. It has stretched all of us to a point to be competitive against Ferrari, where it was difficult to cope. Let's wait and see how the season starts and get going, and we will then re-assess for ourselves and probably with the other guys where it stands."

But we have no idea what the meeting was about. Could be Elkann told Kallenius that they were aware that some data had been stolen and by whom. Wolf was told to stand down after that meeting.

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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MtthsMlw wrote:
Thu Jul 23, 2020 10:26 pm
Blackout wrote:
Thu Jul 23, 2020 2:46 pm
Is the Ferrari compressor inside the V? The more I look at Ferrari PU pics, the more I think so. The turbine seems to be placed extremely close to the engine, similar to Mercedes... So where is the compressor? it's probably inside the V... it's air supply certainly is...
After a long look at this pic I think compressor in the V is likely. If the exhaust manifold connects to where I think it does - it has to.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EA834VsXUAAWQvJ.jpg:large
2019 PU
It is not in the the Vee any more than it was before actually. It is a higher center of gravity though, that is the disadvantage.

hardingfv32
hardingfv32
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
Sat Jul 25, 2020 10:39 pm
It is a higher center of gravity though, that is the disadvantage.
You have to wonder if that matters much when you look at RB high rake setup. It seem that other things can be more important than CG.

Brian

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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The gearboxes are very long in today's cars that
if you take the front splitter as the start of the "rake" and and work you way back to the engine, the difference in height between high rake and low rake engine is not that geat. Lets say redbull diffuser is 40mm higher from ground and the engine is halfway between the end of diffuser and front of the splitter the engine would be 20mm higher. The Ferrari turbo is waaaay more than 20mm high though.

What effect That has on performance? I cannot say from where I sit. Halo itslef may also reduce the punishment of higher CoG as well. But i think lower should be better overall for cars. I think motorcycles are different because they use rolling motion about the longitudinal axis to make direction changes. Where CoG has to be just the right height... Not too low.. Nor too high.... For F1 cars... Well.. I suppose aero is king more than anything else. High noses... High cockpits.. F-duct.. Interesting topic.

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Blackout
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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IMO, somehow the Ferrari turbo isnt placed higher than the others. Its axis seems to be slightly below the upper engine-gbox mounting points, like the other engines (unlike the 2015-2016 Honda). Their compressor and Mguh must be small diameter.
Interesting 3d models here
https://www.circusf1.com/2019/11/f1-tec ... -video.php
https://www.circusf1.com/2020/07/f1-tec ... -video.php
Image

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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That is incorrect.

That model looks to be done by an artist than anyone technical.

I am going to find some Ferrari images... But meanwhile look at the height of the turbo axis of the Renault power unit compared to the standard gearbox mount locations. And look between the Vee. Look at the compressor outlet.

Image


Now Ferrari...edit . Not a good image. Need a better one.



Image